Is online poker flawed, fundamentally? - Page 4 - Gambling and Probability

There is no 5

You can not 1-52 first deal (line one) "mix" with 1-52 of second deal (line two). They are independent events

Do you agree the Line one deal is an independent event from Line two deal?

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02-28-2018 , 06:51 PM

#77

pkdk

banned

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 689

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

All the rows are independent deals, but once a different deck comes into play , that changes things, being offered a top card off a single deck is not the same as been offered a top card off many decks, many of the top cards could be the same card.

In simple terms the consequence action is loads of repeat cards in our hands. The card you get dealt, not being assigned by the shuffle, but by the deck that is assigned.

Last edited by pkdk; 02-28-2018 at 07:00 PM.

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02-28-2018 , 07:12 PM

#78

King Spew

Just average

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15,219

Your use of many decks is very interesting. Are you trying to relate your premise of using,,,say 52 decks...... with the actual game of poker as played? LINK

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02-28-2018 , 07:18 PM

#79

pkdk

banned

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 689

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

Your use of many decks is very interesting. Are you trying to relate your premise of using,,,say 52 decks...... with the actual game of poker as played? LINK

My comparison is of a live game and an internet game. Thank you for reminding me of the link.

It is an interesting notion, I am not making things up. It may be a possibility , in my mind more than a possibility.

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02-28-2018 , 07:21 PM

#80

King Spew

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15,219

Can't wait to see proof from Stars that their RNG uses more than one 52 "card" deck when distributing player hands.

You would think that the internet would be abuzz after the millions of hands already dealt. "John, how do you hold an Ace of spades when I have two of them in my hand?"

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02-28-2018 , 07:25 PM

#81

pkdk

banned

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 689

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

Can't wait to see proof from Stars that their RNG uses more than one 52 "card" deck when distributing player hands.

It was a several year ago I last had the information, I assume they have not changed it since , I have not heard of changes mentioned.
I was surprised and told them then it can't work that way and be consistent.

Hopefully stars gets back to me soon. They never kept it secret or anything like that.

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02-28-2018 , 07:26 PM

#82

King Spew

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15,219

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilGreebo

You can't link the decks together across multiple deals. As long as you continue to insist that the decks are somehow linked together across deals, you are going to be wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

PK, please respond to this "linked deals" theorem of EG's

plus

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

Do you agree the Line one deal is an independent event from Line two deal?

Simple yes/no answers only please. I want to see your baseline.

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02-28-2018 , 07:26 PM

#83

pkdk

banned

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 689

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

They keep the decks separate but put them in a queuing system, the next table that needs a new deck gets one.

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02-28-2018 , 07:28 PM

#84

pkdk

banned

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 689

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

plus

Simple yes/no answers only please. I want to see your baseline.

yes

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02-28-2018 , 07:31 PM

#85

King Spew

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15,219

So you agree one can not link decks across multiple deals?

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02-28-2018 , 07:31 PM

#86

pkdk

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Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 689

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilGreebo View Post
You can't link the decks together across multiple deals. As long as you continue to insist that the decks are somehow linked together across deals, you are going to be wrong.

It uses multiple decks so of course there is a link.

A new deck each hand is assigned to the table, it is a choice of deck that defines what cards you get rather than the shuffle of one deck.

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02-28-2018 , 07:33 PM

#87

pkdk

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Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 689

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

So you agree one can not link decks across multiple deals?

No not at all, because once the multiple decks come into play they become dependent to the deal.

Having any given deck define the hand you get is not the same as a shuffle defining your hand.

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02-28-2018 , 07:33 PM

#88

King Spew

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15,219

Sorry, the "new deck" is in a random order that is in no way linked to the previous deal (old deck)???

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02-28-2018 , 07:35 PM

#89

King Spew

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15,219

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkdk

It uses multiple decks so of course there is a link.

There is no link just because you say there is a link.

There is no link. There, I said it therefore it is true.

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02-28-2018 , 07:37 PM

#90

King Spew

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15,219

Hopefully Stars will confirm for you that they cycle through a bunch of 52 icon arrays and the arrays are programmed to change dependent on the immediate previously used array.

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02-28-2018 , 07:37 PM

#91

pkdk

banned

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 689

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

Sorry, the "new deck" is in a random order that is in no way linked to the previous deal (old deck)???

That's correct , there is absolutely nothing wrong with the randomness of the cards you get, it is totally random. The problem is repeat values and win/lose decks.

Perhaps the win /lose decks is better left out of this until you understand the repeat problem.

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02-28-2018 , 07:39 PM

#92

pkdk

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Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 689

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

There is no link just because you say there is a link.

There is no link. There, I said it therefore it is true.

When stars confirms they use multiple decks, I think that confirms the link.

I feel it is very obvious .

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02-28-2018 , 07:40 PM

#93

King Spew

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15,219

Phew, for a minute there I thought this was going off on an unfollowable tangent. Limited to my understanding of your new math theorems, we ain't goin' nowhere.

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02-28-2018 , 07:42 PM

#94

King Spew

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Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 15,219

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkdk

When stars confirms they use multiple decks, I think that confirms the link.

I feel it is very obvious .

You struggle in the real world as well?

YOU can not make the leap that using multiple decks is a problem without making assumptions that are unprovable. Let's hear what Stars has to say.

You play on Stars do you?

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02-28-2018 , 08:20 PM

#95

pkdk

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Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 689

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Spew

Yes I play on stars. I have found the original conversation and reply from stars . Still waiting to confirm they use the same system which I believe they do.

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Where a deck of cards is shuffled has absolutely no bearing as to
whether it is shuffled randomly or not. As we have explained to
your repeatedly, the cards are shuffled randomly. They *are*
dealt to your table alone, in order, without being altered in any
way. As I write this, there are more than 25,000 tables in
action, and each of them requires a new, shuffled deck of cards
foe every hand it deals. Each table requires a deck more than
once per minute, on average. It makes no sense to have the cards
shuffled at each table. That would require tens of thousands of
individual shuffle servers, which is just silly.

Regards,

Scott
PokerStars Poker Room Management Team

There you go.

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02-28-2018 , 08:22 PM

#96

pkdk

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Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 689

Quote:

Instead, there are servers that do nothing but shuffle decks of
cards. They have no idea how those cards will be used, they just
shuffle decks and line them up. When your table needs a deck, it
pings the server, and the next deck in line is delivered to that
table. The cards are then dealt in order. There is no such
thing as a "cool deck"; every deck is shuffled randomly, so it is
a fair deck. It cannot *possibly* favor any particular player.
NOTHING is ever done to alter the decks -- they are simply dealt
in order, fairly.

More reply from the conversation.

They just shuffle the decks and line them up, creating a bi-probability array.

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02-28-2018 , 08:23 PM

#97

Bobo Fett

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Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 56,895

And the problem is?

Shuffling one deck multiple times and shuffling multiple decks and using them sequentially changes nothing in terms of randomness.

Those 5 starting cards were generated randomly, just like they would be if the same deck was used and then shuffled again, 5 times.

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02-28-2018 , 08:30 PM

#98

pkdk

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Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 689

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobo Fett

Nothing to do with randomness it is about the repeat values over time.

For example if I had ten decks of cards pre-shuffled and offered you the top card of any deck, some of them top cards might be the same value.

Because you are having the top card, none of the other cards matter , your choice becomes ? / 10

Once the deck choice is offered, all the top cards become dependent.