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 07-18-2018, 12:15 PM #1 josofo journeyman   Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 260 how many hours is a good sample size in live poker? how many hours is a good sample size to determine your win rate? Last edited by josofo; 07-18-2018 at 12:21 PM.
 07-18-2018, 01:19 PM #2 pucmo grinder   Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Euro Posts: 489 Re: how many hours is a good sample size in live poker? One hour, or are you blind?
07-18-2018, 03:53 PM   #3
josofo
journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 260
Re: how many hours is a good sample size in live poker?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by pucmo One hour, or are you blind?
but variance

 07-18-2018, 04:52 PM #4 browni3141 veteran   Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: South Florida Posts: 2,201 Re: how many hours is a good sample size in live poker? It is not possible to accurately determine your win-rate in live poker using only statistical methods. By the time you've played enough hours to narrow the confidence interval on your win-rate the game conditions will have changed.
07-20-2018, 02:30 PM   #5
lawdude
Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,023
Re: how many hours is a good sample size in live poker?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by browni3141 It is not possible to accurately determine your win-rate in live poker using only statistical methods. By the time you've played enough hours to narrow the confidence interval on your win-rate the game conditions will have changed.
This is formally correct.

However, it is nonetheless true that you can at least get an idea as to whether you are a winning or losing or close to break-even player, with some confidence, if you play enough hours.

Online, 35,000 hands was a good guideline, which translates to about 1000 hours of live limit play and 1400 hours of live no limit play.

Basically if you play full time for 3/4 of a year in a particular cash game, you should have some idea by the end.

07-20-2018, 10:22 PM   #6
browni3141
veteran

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,201
Re: how many hours is a good sample size in live poker?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by lawdude This is formally correct. However, it is nonetheless true that you can at least get an idea as to whether you are a winning or losing or close to break-even player, with some confidence, if you play enough hours. Online, 35,000 hands was a good guideline, which translates to about 1000 hours of live limit play and 1400 hours of live no limit play. Basically if you play full time for 3/4 of a year in a particular cash game, you should have some idea by the end.
Right, but I would add that the sample size required to determine whether a player is a winner or loser is much smaller live, as the edge is much bigger. It's definitely achievable to do this before game conditions significantly change. However, the sample size required to know your win-rate, let's say accurately enough to judge whom between several players is best, is much larger and not achievable before game conditions change significantly.

 07-29-2018, 02:19 AM #7 leavesofliberty Carpal \'Tunnel   Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: probably busto Posts: 6,205 Re: how many hours is a good sample size in live poker? Agree with comments about sample size. It should be understood that you should be learning as you play so even over a year of solid play conceivably you've improved your game. Your opponents are also conceivably learning too. You can get a picture of what's happening, but you still couldn't really draw a conclusion. If the data says you lost for the first nine months, and won the last three months, it doesn't necessarily mean you're a losing player and may indicate that you're learning how to play.
 07-30-2018, 10:15 AM #8 festivegorgon newbie   Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 19 Re: how many hours is a good sample size in live poker? it really depends on signal to noise.. you might not realize how extreme this effect is.. example: assume std deviation is 200BB/hr 2.5BB/hr win rate.. you'd want 67,000 hours to detect this 25BB/hr win rate.. you'd want 670 hours to detect this

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