Hi guys,

find this situation more and more, in my regular club back home, but also when i travel:

Games (inside a cardroom or official casino) are getting privatized, meaning, 1 or 2 guys run the game, make the list, decide who plays and who's not allowed to play. Usually these are well connected guys, to the casino/cardroom management, as well as knowing a lot of players, especially bad (good) ones like big fish or even whales.

What is your experience with this, how do you deal with this?
Obviously the most profitable games are not easily accessible anymore, and that frankly sucks.

Of course one can try to become "friends" with the guy (though not my style), in another spot i heard people actually pay to play in the game (sometimes up to 50% of their winnings), which is insane in my opinion.

Any ideas, feedback appreciated.

Poker is just like any other business, become good at networking within the industry and you'll be able to increase your access to profitability.

Rely on the same opportunities that everyone else has, have limited profits.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

There are various levels of this depending on the location, the rules within the state/gaming regs and just the tone of the room in general when it comes to 'caving' into the Players.

1) Game of the day or week .. Typically the Players who start the game have the first option to start the game the next time through and then others fall in behind. Seats are held for 10-15 minutes and then they move down the list. This could be as little as 24 hours to 1 week when the list opens up.

2) Semi-private ... Leader(s) approach a room about a game with those Players getting priority when the list opens up. Some rooms will hold the table exclusive for a period of time (2-4 hours) or until play falls below 4-6-handed.

3) Private games ... Similar to above but more excluse .. possibly with higher rake or the game breaks after a set period of time. I've seen a room open a table for an hour just to accommodate a group of 8 guys who all wanted to play together at the same table .. and there was a Dealer available to do so. GL

Not saying that you are wrong, but that's a fatalistic way to look at poker ...

To your point:
a) won't work when you travel
b) talking about my regular game, when u are known as a winning reg, TAG style, it's difficult to do, no matter how good you "network"

Other ideas?
I'm thinking, more people must have this same problem ...

May be i should just wear a wig and go as Mike Matusow ... ;-)

It's not about being right or wrong, it's about admitting that semi-private/private games are always going to exist and adapting. VIPs tend to not care as much about your playing style (unless you are a super nit), they care more about having fun while they play. If you are a boring person, with nothing fun/exciting to talk about, chances are they'd rather play with someone else isn't boring and has more to talk about that just poker strategy.

A) yea, when you travel and are an unknown in the area your options to private games are probably a bit more limited. Just try to make friends and see if anyone can get you in the game, either today or in the future. All you can really do.

B) I've already addressed this a bit above, but in generally I would say you're taking an oversimplified view. Become more social, become more fun to be around, your chances of being able to play in the private games go up. Hell do some -EV stuff like cold hands, black/red flops, etc. That stuff goes a long way with being able to make it into private games.

Also, if the games are really that good, maybe giving a portion of the winnings to the organizer is worth it. It's about making money at the end of the day, and if 50% of a winning session in the private game is a bigger win than 100% of a public game, then go for it. I've given a portion of the profits to the private game organizer on some nights (although it wasn't required) to show my appreciation

Change your style or pay the host. Might sound harsh, but nobody wants to play with nits.

If you’re a fun personality and people like being around you, that lets you get away with playing a couple less hands. Vice versa, if you’re just sitting there with headphones in, people might perceive you as even tighter than you actually are.

If a 9 handed game is built around a couple players who VPIP >50%, sitting around to wait for premium hands is obviously a winning strategy and everyone knows that. There are two ways to limit losses for high VPIP players: a) tell them to play less hands, which they don’t want to do because they are there to have fun or b) don’t let people who exploit that style sit in the game.

Appreciate your views JTM ... and yes, i probably have to adept better, makes sense.

The thing is, it just goes against my "general world view" (don't know how to put this better), but at the end of the day these are +EV adaptions, so i'll try and let you know

Wanna add one observation i made a couple of times, that actually support what you are all saying:
There's one guy in a game that a play regularly when i'm in Vegas who is actually super tight, but nobody perceives him as being tight, because he's constantly talking to everybody, telling stories and so on, so he's always engaged in a way, although he's not playing very much.

I always laugh about the people who engage with him and give him lots of action, though it's clear to me, that he's super nitty and has the goods 99% of the time when he puts money in the pot.

It's an act, but a working one - so i probably have to look at this like another "skill" that helps improve my winrate.

As another poster said, no one likes playing with a NIT. It is even more pronounced in live games.

The fish, at any reasonable stakes, are often people with larger amounts of disposable income such as business owners. They deal with minutiae, tedium, government regulation, etc all the time. They play poker to GAMBLE.

If you want to get in those groups, your best bet is to gamble also... or at least, look like you are gambling! My approach is to play every marginal hand, variance be damned.

You see, bad players can not tell the difference between you making good plays with marginal hands or poor plays with marginal hands. They themselves always choose the later All they really notice is if you are playing often, or not playing often.

So loosen up, don't be afraid of variance, show the gamblers a good time and do some coin tosses with them, straddle the button every chance you get and double straddle in the cutoff. You give up very little edge, if any at a table full of poor players, yet you then give off the appearance of being loose and gambly...

And that will get you invited back to the game, and into other games

--
Kahn

That is a very good point Sir. thx.

Yeah, when it comes down to it, if you are doing it right in a live, private game with a bunch of rich degenerates... they will not even know you are a winning player.

They will think of you as a "lucky gambler" who plays tons of hands but somehow gets lucky and wins.

In fact, I often play extra loose the first few sessions because there is nothing like forming a first impression in the minds of your opponents wherein you are a wild gambler. (this also guarantees you'll be invited back to the game, and perhaps into other games)

This is the image I strive for. People like me in their games and I give them the impression that they can beat me. It works. It is profitable.

--
Kahn

It is an interesting dynamic as to which home games you do/don't get invited to. How much you interact, but more importantly 'how' you interact can impact your status for sure.

I still struggle to remain 'bubbly' after I'm down a couple of BI and the 'wrong' Players are the ones who got the chips.

It's amazing how a game slows down when I'm not opening 4-6 hands per orbit 'as expected'. Back in the day some Players thought I was working for the room and opening pots just to get max rake every hand!

This could certainly fall into the 'Nice Hand' conversation, which is exactly what you (should) will hear from a lot of Pros regardless of whose EV was better going to the River.

Some day I'll eat at the table with the adults!! GL

these exist because the non private games have issues (hit and running/not going regular times or having long lists/annoying players etc). If you have an issue with them I think you should work to make the open games more enjoyable so these are not necessary. Sometimes this is not possible. If you are enjoyable to play with I doubt you will have to do much to get into these games. Some have become predatory where like you stated winning players are shut out or forced to sell action/give portion of winnings. These games never survive long for obvious reasons so just wait until they reform and make them non toxic then.

I don't see the problem with private games.

The casinos are not some city run golf course where randoms get paired up to play to fill the tee sheet. Casinos are able to offer the country club experience where money matches are set up by a non club board member and you need to know someone and have connections to get in the cash game.

I don't believe you will find anything in the gaming laws - in any state - legally prohibiting a casino from providing a service of private games.

Work on your chipping and course manners and you too may find yourself in the "good" game...

Long thread about this in NVG

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...13/index6.html

What Ive learned from home/non-casino games:

-Day one/1st night winners dont get invited back.
-ABC poker players never get invited back.
-Donkeys get invited back
-Losers get invited back

-Cheaters are more likely to cheat
-Id laugh if a room runner told me it was 50% rake.. does that come with a personal masseuse all night?

Do they expect you to be a break-even AND a winning player?

Alas, Im only a casual player barely going higher than 2/5 so if you roll with 100k buy-ins then it is surely different.

Masseuse pays the host 50% of her earnings, winning player pays the host 50% of his winnings. Seems fair to me.

I have seen this in Atlantic City in a certain game. They control the sign up. Give preference to the people they want. All get up for dinner at the same time leaving the game so short its unplayable and floor won't call them back or pick them up. Not much you can do but get there early and watch the board and podium like a Hawk and stand up for yourself. I am glad I don't go that room often its really a shame.

50% of winnings is not the same as 50% rake. If you could carry losses forward, this would be not that terrible if the game was super juicy.