(Mods: Feel free to move if this isn’t the appropriate place for this thought)

I had a couple times my last session where I wanted a call on the river, knowing that I had the best hand. Both times the V seemed on the fence for a half minute or so and then I could tell that they were leaning towards folding, and then both times they did. These were heads up situations on the river, so speech play would be fair game in these spots.

I have a couple tricks that I use to induce calls when I know I’m ahead heads up on the river, but I try to make sure I don’t overuse them around the same people. For these two situations I felt like I could have maybe manipulated V’s into calls with some quick thinking, but no appropriate ideas came to me at the time so I just stuck with my standard approach of not giving away anything.

Any players out there have some speech play or body language tricks they use once in awhile for these situations where V is on the fence and you want a call?

Pretty bush league imo

How do you figure?
It’s a legitimate part of the game.

Usually ‘the speach’ is a sign of strength so I find it’s far easier to talk moderately thinking V into folding than calling.

I think what Gold and Kasouf did was not decent. I think it's okay to say something once, but if your opponent doesn't engage, you should shut up. Basically, speech play can be used as an excuse when what you're really doing is getting in their face and trying to disturb their thinking(that's not poker). I really think that's what Jamie was doing whether he knew it or not, lean forward staring at opponent and running his mouth intensely. What's next, shouting in your opponents face when he has a big decision?

OTOH, if your opponent engages with you, go ahead.

Yeah, I mean that sums up my thoughts

To be clear, this is not at all what I’m talking about doing and not the kind of player I am at all. If you played with me for a few hours you would quickly find out that I’m always respectful to all players.

I’m not talking about running my mouth non-stop here, and I can probably count on one hand in the last 1000 hours of play that I’ve actually said anything to a player when they’re making a decision. Usually I save any sort of misdirection for someone who has themselves been a negative influence on the table.

What I’m talking about is very subtle stuff, and I was mostly curious what people would respond to the question for knowledge purposes (to know if something is ever said to me).

I have one trick I use involving chips that I think works well that I won’t specifically explain, but doesn’t involve speaking to my opponent.

I also had one time that an opponent was thoroughly unhealthy for the table, and in one hand called time on a lady only 20-30 seconds after he made a huge bet into her on the river. It was clear that he was trying to make her uncomfortable, she made a bad call and I lost it on the guy after the hand. At the end of my session, there was a spot of karma where I picked up a monster against him and used the same tactic against him of calling time unreasonably quickly, mostly just to mess with him for being a ****, and i ended up winning a massive pot off him. That totally felt like fair game to me.

I also had a player call time on me quickly last session, I ended up folding after tanking awhile, and he showed a big bluff. That I didn’t mind so much because he knows that I’m a reg.

I’m not talking about jabbering at someone incessantly to distract them though. I would never do that.

if your all in tell the villian you want to go home and mow the lawns. seen it work with other players saying it and myself saying it. works on any street flop, turns river or even pre. if the villian is a older male or a feminist lesbian and your a male tell her/him to fold. do this to any player in fact if they don't like to be told what to do. i've been on the recieving end of this and get banned here on 2+2 quite often for not following the laws of the site.

i do that until they tell me to be quiet if they ever do. not to distract them though its either to get them to fold or call and usually they talk to me first thats why they don't tell me to be quiet.

i've never had a player call time on me since i come from playing online and usually make split second decisions and thinking what i will do on future streets on the current street. i do get thoughts that the other players are annoying as **** for taking soo much time to make decisions. i wonder if they are all new to the game or are doing it on purpose. probably a mixture of both. never called time on other players (maybe i should start).

Takes a real special kind of douchebag to create a post asking for others to post about what they find is helpful while refusing to do the same themselves.

You should at least have the self awareness and decency to pretend you yourself don't know anything at all and have nothing that could be worth sharing.

Can the mods just lock this already?

lol @ calling someone who you know nothing about a douchebag b/c they’re curious to discuss verbal tells, but don’t specifically want to mention one very minor trick that they use (which isn’t even a verbal trick).

You’re right though. I’m a consistently winning player who knows absolutely nothing.

Close the thread if you want mods. I don’t ****ing care anyway for how productive the discussion has been.

So the only players worth discussing anything with are the ones who feign complete ignorance so that people like you can feel justified in your supreme knowledge of all things poker related?
I would have been curious to discuss whatever you thought was worthwhile here, and if you had of expressed interest in what I meant by my chip trick I would have been happy to share it with you by DM.
I don’t understand your ridiculous attitude toward a complete stranger, it’s pretty ****ing trite tbh.

Found it, I'm sorry about the way I handled this. I'm clearly being a dick. Maybe I should stop posting for a little while until I start adjusting my attitude. While I stand by my general thoughts on the asking others to post stuff but not disclosing anything yourself, I definitely was out of line responding like this.

I'm sorry

-Adam

^ no worries Adam. It only confused me more than actually upset me.

I was really just hoping for some insight from players who do this sort of speech play often, so that I might have better general information next time it’s used by a player in a hand against me. I don’t really say much at all ever during hands so I thought I might learn some useful info by asking the question.

I don't talk much while in a hand, a large part is I usually don't speak the same language as the people I'm playing against anyway.

But there are definitely some guys who feel if they get bluffed is like an insult to their mother. It can pay a lot of dividends to 3bet these guys with hands like 38o sometimes and then show it.

I once had A7 on an Axx A 7 board. I had opened pre, this guy I bluffed earlier defended. I cbet top pair, he calls, turn trips and bet again, he calls, get a boat on river, he leads, I jam. He goes into the tank and finally flips over K high. I assume this is his way of conceding. He eventually calls. Thought I had 27 or something and didn't want to let me get away with it.

Out of curiosity, what kind of sample size do you have related to trying this stuff? Do we know that it actually works, or is it possible that it's just confirmation bias? It just strikes me as unlikely that there can be little chip tricks that work to induce calls, since surely pros would be all over that if it actually worked.

Not a big sample size, and not something I would use against the same player multiple times in a short amount of time.
Also, not what I was intending to focus this thread on. Wish I never wrote that.
I was mostly hoping to hear from some people who use speech on the river to try and sway opponents one way or the other so that I might have more general population info to go on next time someone does it to me.

Fair enough. To answer your question, I never speak when I'm all in and I'm waiting for a decision, and this is despite being very talkative at the table in general. Anything you do is going to give information which is unhelpful for you.

Very interesting question.
But as I suspected, this forum is just used for objecting the OPs.
Would be interested in private discussion.

My contribution: I try to look insecure with the nuts, seems to work vs unknown players. So, insecure talking might also be an idea.

A more interesting spot is when you have to call a river bet and want to find out if villain is bluffing. I use to tell them I am about to bluff catch, and my findings are that if they ask what I (might) have it is more likely a bluff. Some also recheck their hand to look strong. But as always it can also be used in reverse...

I have a few tricks that I decline to disclose.

One thing I would do is study your opponents and consider mirroring any tells that they give. If they do or say something when weak, they might be prone to thinking that someone who does the same thing is also weak. People like to see themselves as normal, which leads to them making bad assumptions about others based on whether they do things the same way.

I experience again and again that the players feeling unconfortable reacting frustrated when i am staring at them to catch a tell. They put their glasses off and staring back to me with wide opened eyes or they start talking like "look more maybe you can see sth". Just raise big in these situations ir better go all in. No one is frustrated with quads

As chatty as I am, I'm not really a talker during hands unless a reg and I have already been going at it a bit that session. But here are a couple ...

It's 50-50 ... win or lose.
This one's gonna hurt. (Not saying who it's going to hurt)

The long time classic however is ... "If you have to think this long, you must be behind." A Player saying this is rarely behind IMO, but it's a clear sign that a Player knows you are at the bottom of your range and in a bind ... and hoping that your pride will give into making the call.

I also 'suggest' that most Players will use the word opposite of what they want you to do. Since we are very un-trusting in these spots, we tend to do the opposite of the 'word'. It wont matter how the word was used in the sentence, just hearing the word will 'make' us want to do the opposite.

1) You thinkin' about a fold? ... wants a call
2) We've come all this way, might as well call. ... wants a fold
3) We sharin' cards? Let's chop up a call ... wants a fold

Plenty more where that came from ... GL

It depends on the villain, I made 2 different speech players recently when i wanted a call. First was vs a reg MP raised BTN called (both regs) I have AA on the straddle and 3-bet.. flop came Jack high I bet flop MP folds and BTN called both good players, turn was a blank maybe a bdfd I cant remember but I shuved... BTN goes into the tank after about a minute passes I kind of mumur "you dont have to be a hero" (not sure if i like this) then i went quiet again after a couple of minutes pass he says "if i fold will you show" I stayed quiet and then said "what do you have aces?" tryin to act like Im bluffin and tryin to over represent my hand the sort of thing you have to do vs a good player, give off false tells. He ends up callin with KJ

another hand i raise A4hh from CO, BTN calls, BB 3bets (button is a fish, BTN is a nit) flop comes 5h2h3s, BB cbets, I calll, BTN calls
6h on the turn - gets check round
river 10c - BB bets, I shuv, BTN folds.

The fish tanks for ages cant really recollect what he said after some time I said "AK's not good" and he's like "what? thats what you think I have" and then calls with JJ.

Its tough but you have to get on the level of thinkin of youre villain

In one of my local casino's this is not allowed; you're not allowed to say anything that could reasonably be expected to influence action. I saw one guy get a warning for saying, "I've got to protect my hand".

I think this is a good rule. The pit decides what's "reasonable", of course.

Normally you're allowed to talk heads up but not multiway