i have always been slightly skeptical about formulaic approaches to reading body language and behavior. ive always figured that this aspect of the game is more instinctual and hard to learn (maybe im wrong)

on the other hand, it seems like picking up on information through conversation would be more effective, and something that could be learned through practice

many live pro's talk to their opponents during hands, or at least say things to provoke a reaction

do any of you view this the same way: that conversation is the most effective avenue for picking up on information at the table? im sure this has been talked to death already but i think its an interesting topic. this is my first time posting in this sub-forum

I think talking is very valuable. For those who have their headphones on and ignore everyone at the table, I think they're missing out on a lot.
I'm no pro, that's why I realized I have to be very careful what I say myself.
Any observant villain can pick up on a lot, pro or no pro.
For example, one guy raises in early position with QTo.
It comes to showdown. Your neighbor says to you, " he raised utg with that? " . You now have a ton of info on this guy about how he thinks about the game.

I'm not so sure we want to separate body language and behavior from conversation. They are a package deal. In general I think that 'words' should be more consistent than physical tells from person to person and that may be what you are referring to in your comfort level of applying them. Players may use the same words, but offer differing body language or inflections during their delivery.

That being said I would say that 'learning/recognizing' conversation keys wouldn't necessarily be easier with practice, but would supply a more consistent result and ultimately become more reliable during the decision making process.

Don't ignore the physical tells that come along with conversation. A person's body can reflect how genuine they are during a discussion, especially the eyes and lips. ZE has put some effort into analyzing smile types. GL

I don't deliberately initiate conversation in order to elicit responses but I agree that generally what people say at the table is more valuable than trying to interpret body language and physical tells.

For example, I know players who like to employ a trick to get calls when they have big hands. Suppose they have a set and they make a bet on a threatening river card, like a card that completes a flush or straight. As soon as their opponent shows any uncertainty or discomfort, they will admit, in a friendly and conciliatory tone, that they don't have the obvious threatening hand (the flush or straight). By taking the strongest hands out of their range, they increase the likelihood that the opponent will call with a hand they beat. I've seen it work numerous times.

It's a strength for me and I agree it is highly "instinctual" ... which really means subconscious/intuitive, i.e. learned insight ... not an instinct per se. It's kind of in the you have it or you don't category, at least in regards to having it strong enough to be a weapon. People are very, very different in their aptitudes and this is no exception. The math specialists often fail so utterly at psycholinguistics that its shocking. Conversely, intuitive types can be shockingly blind in other areas.

Im playing for fun live since i play with my friends that arent sober, but most of them basicly tell what they are doing, i find it hilarious.

But ya, they basicly tell when they are playing tight by saying "I never have anything". And when they are playing loose "HERE I COME, ALL IN" and stuff like that.

I have sometimes picked up my chips on btn etc, and bb has said "ARIGHT HERE WE GO", then i have folded because i have had rags, and bb has told me "i was going all in".

I have been silent and thinking "aint that kind of obvious, you told me"

Those are all common phrases at the table. But the key ingredient to all 'tells' is that they get backed up by you confirming via their holdings. It appears that you are already comfortable ranging your friends based on their comments. Have they ever surprised you with what they show down?

I've used all of those phrases both as 'fact' and 'fiction' at the table just to stir up the game a little. GL

They have suprised me since, im not eather usually sober on the tables.
But when game has been going on few hours, i, and mostly everyone knows what most of peeps have.

I am not usually suprised, i have found out that, what works for me, i give no info.
I find people giving info on poker, that it usually gives some info.
And the funny thing, i was pointing out how funny its, not that im always right.
That people will a lot of time tell what they have. Not on start of game, but when it goes on.

I have been also fooled by those speeches sometimes, but you learn from them.
5months ago approx, another player there made a big sigh, when hitted top pair on flop.
After that, my reads have been very good on him, but it did work once.

After that, you know that other player can try to talk you into decicions, so you can react to it.

And sorry if you were not talking about my comment,
i just wanted to point out, that people very often tell specific what they have.

It takes a lot of time to get know all players, i have very clear how to play there nowdays.