Been playing maybe 20 minutes. Sit down at the poor man's 1/2 game.

I have 88 with about 225 starting stack in the SB with a button straddle. They do that stupid blinds are skipped so action comes all the way around to me with 3-4 limpers. I make it 36. 1 fish calls with about 115 behind. Hu.. Flop A1010 rainbow....Almost 100 in the pot. I ship it. Dude tanks for about 2-3 minutes(lol) and calls with A3 of diamonds. yeehaw. Turn river brick. And I said, I only got two pair.....he quickly turns over his hand before I could and I muck..


Dude to my right two spots looks at me before I can even ship my whole stack over. "What did you have bro?" I kinda look at him like wtf....."I had the 2nd best hand." "You have to show it!" "Dude I ****ing mucked."...."Floor!" He literally yells floor... "I want a ruling! He has to show. I can still tell which two cards are his in the muck."


I kinda blew up on the dude after that. Do not regret. Floor had to calm me down a lil bit.


Was I in the wrong? I have never once had this situation and I'm sure it just depends on the casino you are in. Floor stated they protect your hand at the Venetian and you don't have to show unless you can prove collusion or something like that.

What is the etiquette? I have never seen this happen once. Seems like a super dickk move to ask a guy right after he gets stacked off what he had when you weren't even involved in the hand. Then pull the card he did after that with the floor and everything. It's 1/2. Calm down playa.


Of course not long later that same guy is sitting there talking about current hands with the guy next to him and flashing cards to players next to him when he takes down massive 20 bb pots. Some people.

Sorry if this question has already been covered.

Some rooms/Floors would have given you a time out.

The world is full of jerks. Learn to put them on "Ignore"

Kind of a long rant post but I've seen this a handful of times over a few k hours.

Exact situation, someone not even in hand wants to see a mucked hand that did not have to show. Shouting match ensues, etc.

It was enforced once at Daytona. Other times floors allowed the hand to be mucked.

The original idea is to prevent collusion but its rather stupid bc people just want to see hands and lol at colluding at 1/2.

These people are literally brainless, and nail #10,651 in the live poker coffin. Don't let brainless people get to you. Calmly look at the dealer and say "I want my hand mucked, and if you disagree, please call the floor".

Don't blow up over something that doesn't matter?
No. The original idea was that it was showdown and all players left had to show.

That's not true. I've had this conversation with multiple floors and as stated in OP venetian floor also agrees.

This isn't a tournament. If a player wants to muck his hand and relinquish his claim to the pot he is free to do so. The sole reason the ruling can be used is in collusive situations.

You have to trust the floor here to make the correct decision, and if you do, then there's no reason to blow up. If it's the rule that you have to show, then the douche is right and the floor will make an attempt to identify your cards.

I happen to know that the Venetian floors shut these guys down exactly as it happened here. You don't even have to interact with the douche at all. Just let the process play out.

fwiw I have developed a policy of simply answering the question. In fact, I answer it so often that one time a guy responded "How do I know you're telling the truth?" and a regular told him "If that's what he says he had, then you can believe that's what he had"

Basically, chill out. Players have a right to ask the floor what the rule is.

Oh boy, here we go again. The "multiple Venetian floors" might think they know the origin of the rule, but if that's what they say the origin is, then they don't actually know.

We were talking about the original intent of the rule, not how it is currently interpreted. I stand by my statement.

RROP specifically states that anyone who was dealt in has a right to see the hand, even when mucked. That way people can't dodge the rule by quick mucking when someone asks. But it's all up to each room's rules how it is applied. I've seen some where they enforce the rule, but won't pull cards out of the muck. Others that say you must state a reason for suspecting collusion.

But since we're talkng etiquette, it's never proper etiqutte to get so wound up that a floor has to calm you down. If the floor is called on you, don't blow up on the person calling the floor, just calmly state your opinion to the floor politely without calling the other player names. That's etiquette, but also rarely the way floor calls go. People seem to think that increased volume and rudeness add to the logic of their position.

the guy is an *******
next time jam your cards into the muck

Don't blow up, keep calm and let the floor rule. If they want to pull the cards back out of the muck and show him, continue to stay calm. I have a firm policy of waiting for arbitration with this kind of stuff and rolling with it...I think if your attitude is 'hey, rules are rules' *shrug* whenever someone gets nitpicky, your blood pressure will thank you.

But yeah 100% the guy is a colossal tool. I would enforce the 'show one show all' rule on him if he's flashing cards to his neighbours.

any time someone wanted to see a mucked hand of mine in a spot like this i would yell floor and instinctivly everyone at the table would turn and look for a floor and then i would mix my cards in with the muck. it usually got me a warning but who cares.

I Want To See The Hand (IWTSTH) used to be a universal rule in all cardrooms. Anyone dealt a hand was entitled to see any and all hands at showdown.

The origin of this rule is disputed. I thought it was to deter collusion. And I had similar reactions as OP's 10+ years ago.

I have since been educated at 2+2. The rule's origins are more likely just that you have paid to see everyone's hand. I personally now believe that this rule was developed to inhibit people from introducing extra Aces at showdown from up a sleeve or wherever.

Many cardrooms like the Venetian have now repealed the IWTSTH rule (FW is another one) because there were so many incidents like this. Too many hard feelings.

Thanks for the comments folks.

I definitely let him get under my skin. Kinda threw my mojo off. And over something really stupid. Jokes on me.

Lesson learned. A big one in fact. I am always very calm and very polite at the table. Always. Had that snap moment.

I will say I was in the wrong for getting worked up over it. Shoulda kept my cool and I do feel bad about it....maybe just a lil(lol) now that I think about it.

Looking back this was probably the best part lol...

When he yelled floor, for the 2nd time, I said yeah you do that buddy, call the floor. I had no clue which two cards were mine but I scrambled up the muck.

IMO, it shouldn't matter. If dealer does his job, which apparently few places train well, number 1 priority is to kill mucked hand. If a player relinquishes his hand, get it into the muck. Problem solved.

The 'ol "Once a month Rule" as we call it ... You are allowed to make this 'request' once a month or be admonished by the reg poker community in the room!!

He had a right to see your cards.
You had the right to tell him "I had a pocket pair" and hope to move on.
You had the right to tell him what you did and hope to move on.

He may have been misinformed that since you went all-in first that you needed to show first ... But didn't realize that once the other guy showed 'out of turn' that you were off the hook. GL

1. It is usually allowed for another player to ask to see your hand at showdown(it varies whether or not the player just had to be in the hand at the start, or at showdown)
2. It is usually considered rude
3. You really aren't giving up that much information by letting him know that you took a stab at it with a pocket pair. He already knew you didn't have an ace.
4. You realize entirely that your frustration was with how you played that hand (and probably a little bit with the guy who called your raise with A3), and not really with the guy acting like a douche, right? He just got in the way of your anger.

The best way to handle it is to simply table you hand and say 'dude, that's really not cool'. He can bluster all he wants, but most at the table will side with you.

Seem to see a lot more of this in the lower stakes. Unwarranted behavior by the other party. Although, I definitely wouldn't have cursed, just keep your cool and proceed to crush.

In LA there was a rule where you were allowed to request to see both hands but it was kind of an unspoken rule you could only do this once every couple orbits.

Also at the Venetian, I was in the 2 Seat once when the 1, 3, and 4 all claimed to have seen my cards at the end of a hand and wanted me to show the table. I said "No you didn't" because I was sure none of them did.

The three seats took turns announcing my cards. Each gave a different answer, and none were my cards. I reached over the 1 Seat and shoved them into an unprotected muck.

The dealer was peeved, but I wasn't about to let these idiots collude to see my cards. There's a lesson about eyewitness testimony in there.

That's not a valid reason to make you show your hand anyway, but if you did this in a room where I was the floor, you'd be done for the night.

The etiquette is definitely don't ask don't tell, but the fact that you went from zero to tilt in 20 minutes is a strategic leak you may want to address.

Most of the time it won't hurt to just show your cards and avoid the delay and confrontation. The reason I say this is , at 1-2 , very few players can seriously exploit this information that well anyway. Much ado over nothing here IMHO

Thanks for the comments and info.

For sure. Guess you missed the part where I said it was that snap moment? Can safely say I have never tilted like that before. It was weird and like someone else pointed out I kinda took out my frustration on that prick. Just a rare spot. I never react like this. Very friendly, easy going guy....I'm sure some here will disagree though.

Again, was a great learning experience.