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Poker Tells/Behavior, hosted by: Zachary Elwood Discussions about poker tells, behavior, and psychology, with a focus on live poker.

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Old 12-19-2016, 10:18 PM   #1
Kingkong352
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Opponent show his chips.

Hi,
I was playing a hand 1$-2$ no limit 200$ deep.

I'm small blind with 9d8d, it's limped around 5 players to the flop : 5d-6s-Td. I check, one player checks, the next bet 8$ (in a 10$ pot), it's folded to me, I raise 25$, it goes fold, call.

The turn comes 3c. My opponent is an old recreational player, which I see as conservative. He is about 90$ deep.

I'm actually considering an overbet shove on the turn for a few seconds, I look at him to see if I pick up something, and he instinctively/automatically lifts his hand up so I can see his stack well.

I was wondering if there was an information to pick up on this. This is a behaviour I've seen often with recreational players.

I guess at the very least it means he's still interested in the hand. But could it be that he's so excited to put his chips in the pot ? Because these kind of players are not used to play big pots, and I am pretty sure there is not a deception behind his move.
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Old 12-22-2016, 01:19 PM   #2
michelle227
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Re: Opponent show his chips.

OR...it could simply be that, being older, he is actually used to the civility of not trying to hide his chips and was offering a clear view as the traditions suggest should occur.
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Old 12-23-2016, 10:20 AM   #3
answer20
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Re: Opponent show his chips.

1) It shows you he is 'very' aware of the pot size and the amount of his remaining chips and he is not afraid of letting you know the he knows either.
2) Does that correlate to hand strength or weakness? I'm not so sure either way ...

I tend to want to tie this action to something else in order to make a judgement. I think it's more likely that he's showing you his chips in an attempt to get a free card if he's short-stacked but he's also more than willing to call it off as well.

I think the more reliable action is when a player picks up a short stack and has it extended in a betting position. This player is putting the chips into the pot whether it be a draw or made hand.

I have one opponent who always announces his remaining stack when he bets out and is left short behind. It's 95% certain that if he picks up his stack and announces that the chips are going in if given the opportunity. On the flip side, when he 'only' announces (without picking up) I can put him on a weaker range of hands, but they are still probably going into the pot. In general he is strong and really has a fear of getting sucked out on or missing his draw. He will try to reverse tell this from time to time, but not very often.

I also think it's a much stronger tell that a player is strong (more committed to the hand) if they 'immediately' verbalize their remaining stack than just show it to you. GL
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Old 07-26-2017, 06:22 PM   #4
Rob_Banks
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Re: Opponent show his chips.

At my local casino, I notice this behavior a lot from older, recreational players (keep in mind, I'm living in South America, where poker is not as popular/well-known as in the US).

Another behavior I see from these older, recreational players is to immediately and forcefully shove their remaining chips into the pot, while keeping the chips neatly stacked (not splashing them in). This is often done after a straight-completing card hits the board, and it almost always means they hit their draw and have the nuts.

When they show me their remaining stack (without me asking), it also often means they have a strong hand, or at least a hand they're willing to go all-in with.

These players rarely (if ever) bluff, and don't like to play big pots unless they have the nuts. I have seen these players check back a made straight on the turn AND river, and then say "I was afraid of the flush" (even though if their opponent had a flush, they wouldn't have checked twice).

Also, they will rarely slow-play big hands. If they hit their draw, or make a big hand, they will come out betting, even when out of position. If they check, it often means they are weak/giving up, or have a marginal hand that they are check-calling.

They rarely EVER fold draws, so if you feel like they are on a draw, get max-value out of it, and the fold if the draw hits and they make a big bet.

Obviously, every situation is different. But as a general rule of thumb, when an older, recreational player shows you his stack, or forcefully and confidently shoves in his remaining stack, it almost always means a strong hand/nuts.

Don't overthink things when playing against these older recs. They're not clever enough to mix it up and/or give off false tells. Strong means strong, weak means weak. It's as simple as that.

Of course, you have to first be sure you are dealing with an incompetent recreational player. The other night, I donked off about $150 (100 BB in cash game) to an older guy who triple-checked trip queens to me, and I bluffed off my whole stack, thinking he was weak. Thankfully, I re-bought and made back about $100 from him on the next hand with AK when I paired my king. I guess he thought I was a maniac who liked to bluff, and he called me down to the river.

Last edited by Rob_Banks; 07-26-2017 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:26 PM   #5
threebanger
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Re: Opponent show his chips.

I've played with a lot of guys like this too, and this is often a "strong means weak" tell.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:21 AM   #6
Onlythenuzt
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Re: Opponent show his chips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_Banks View Post
Don't overthink things when playing against these older recs. They're not clever enough to mix it up and/or give off false tells. Strong means strong, weak means weak. It's as simple as that.
.
You make a lot of decent points but I wouldn't say older players are ''not clever enough to make false tells''.... I often mix it up and sometimes make false tells which are sometimes believed and am still(perhaps due to MTT variance) a losing player.

It's not really about ''not being clever enough'' it's the fear of losing one's chips with a marginal hand. As for older players trying to give off a false weak tell with a strong hand, I have seen it several times every night I have played from all age groups including 40-100. Older players often know the value of money and fear it and respect it but when they have the nuts they often lose that fear
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Old 08-16-2017, 05:20 PM   #7
jcarter1
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Re: Opponent show his chips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle227 View Post
OR...it could simply be that, being older, he is actually used to the civility of not trying to hide his chips and was offering a clear view as the traditions suggest should occur.
That would also be my first assumption in this spot. I know that I have performed this 'tell' several times and it had absolutely nothing to do with my holding at the time (or so I assume?).
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Old 08-20-2017, 10:38 PM   #8
WehrmatsWormhat
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Re: Opponent show his chips.

So, I'll start off by saying that I think this forum has definitely helped and brought some good points, but... there are A LOT of times when someone is just showing good etiquette, rather than giving off any meaningful information, and I really think this is one of them. You need to know when there's actually info to be gained and when you're seeing things that aren't there.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:06 AM   #9
Yacht67
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Re: Opponent show his chips.

You can always ask for a chip count. Not sure if moving arms to see chips is a tell or just being polite.
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:27 AM   #10
Shai Hulud
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Re: Opponent show his chips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yacht67 View Post
You can always ask for a chip count. Not sure if moving arms to see chips is a tell or just being polite.
Where I play they'll only do a count if it's already bet. If you're just wondering how many chips someone has you can ask them but they're not obligated to respond, just to make the chips visible.
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Old 11-28-2017, 02:21 PM   #11
jjjou812
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Re: Opponent show his chips.

Now i always give a count in cash or a tournament. Between my colorblindness and close chip colors, i cant see the difference between a 100 and 5000 chip from across table, so i am always asking for confirmation of how many big chips. For good etiquette, I volunteer an exact count when someone else is faced w the same issue.
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Old 11-28-2017, 03:57 PM   #12
Ray Zee
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Re: Opponent show his chips.

generally dont talk when you are in the action . especially to any opponent. there is never really anything to say thats good for you.
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