I won't mention the casino in case that affects answers.

Low stakes no limit game. I'm in the 5 seat and am not paying attention to all the details of the hand. Pot is developing between player in the 9 seat and player in the 1 seat. Player in 1 seat is on his 4th drink, so maybe not thinking straight. Also, there is a high hand promo going on this day, being paid out $1000 every hour, but two cards in your hand must play.

On the river, board is QJ1010A

Seat 9 puts in a large bet, seat 1 calls (possibly all in). After action has taken place, I whisper to the guy next to me (so neither player can hear me), "Sucks if anyone has the king of diamonds since their royal won't count for high hand."

Player in seat 9 tables A10 for 10's full of aces. This is where it gets crazy.

Seat 1 looks pissed and angrily flings his cards face up (in a manner to show how horribly he got sucked out on with his awesome cards), but in doing so, one card flies across the table and the other lands on the sleeve/arm of the player in the 7 seat. That card is visible and the king of diamonds. His other card is a king as well. Some players at the table think his hand is dead as they thought he was mucking and the fact that a card landed off the table (yet not on the floor). More than one player pipes up that he has a royal flush since the cards are now speaking (they never touched the muck). Seat 1 obviously didn't realize that's what he had, just thought his kings (and king high flush) got beat by a boat and was pissed. Seat 9 starts insisting his hand is dead and wants the pot. Seat 1 backpedals and immediately says he was tabling his hand, albeit in a frustrated manner. Seat 9 immediately calls for the pit boss. Pit boss comes over, dealer explains what happened, players not in the hand corroborate.

What should happen here?

I want to see what the consensus is before saying what DID happen.

Cards definitely speak all day here. Otherwise, seat 1 doesn't have an opportunity to slow roll in this manner.

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In a crazy scenario like that, I would go all-in on a super bold move and decide that the best hand should win the pot.

Both cards face up, identifiable.
Push the pot to the best hand, the royal.

My guess is that the "pit boss" ruled either the royal is dead or to chop the pot. Otherwise, why post this?

If cards don't play, then it's kinda silly.

It doesn't matter if you were trying to muck, if your cards land face up, not touching/in the muck then your cards play and best hand wins.


How is this relevant? Just wondering.

Unless this room has a rule specifically stating cards off the dead render a hand dead (and even then, it doesn't seem clear whether the card actually did go off the table), I'm pushing the pot to the best hand.

Relevant because I (and I'm sure) other players noticed that there was a 4 card royal possibility on the board that wouldn't count for the high hand promotion (while apparently the player who held it didn't know he had it), and relevant that I said it so the players couldn't hear me because nothing had been tabled yet and I didn't want to affect the outcome if someone had, indeed, misread their hand.

A lot of quick replies, all in agreement.

Pit boss did indeed rule the royal gets the pot, and gave the player in seat 1 a warning for throwing his cards and told him if it happened again he was done for the night.

The reason I posted is because seat 9 kept insisting he got screwed, and more than one player at the table seemed to think seat 1 was mucking his hand and since a card landed off the table (on the arm of the other player), his hand should have been dead. One older guy I've played with a few times (funny guy, seems to have been around and know the rules from what I've seen) said seat 1 was lucky and that in most other casinos his hand would have been ruled dead, and that proving his intent (mucking vs. showing) was pretty tricky based on how he flung the cards.

I actually seemed to be in the minority that his cards were identifiable, tabled, and spoke for themselves. I told seat 9 that we all saw he had a royal, no one was in disagreement about it, and he had an unbeatable hand and deserved the pot.

We all were in agreement that had the king of diamonds landed on the floor (face up OR down) that everyone should have kept quiet and just called the floor for a ruling.

It led to some lively discussion afterwards, and a lot of needling of seat 1 as the night went on for almost mucking a royal flush.

Was his intent to muck without showing or to table his hand to show his bad luck?

I was fairly convinced it was the latter. Some of the other players thought it was the former. Hence the debate at the table. In addition to the added twist of one card landing on a player's arm "off the table".

Guy has a royal flush, opponent wants his hand killed and others agree with that. Sad table.

The hand is tabled, the intent behind that should not matter.

"Angrily" turning up a royal flush. Talk about a convincing argument.

If a player notices a four-card royal and doesn't whisper it to the guy next to him, did he really notice it?

Ruling was correct, even if the player thought he lost he showed the winning hand, he gets the benefit of the doubt

His kings full wins too.

He doesn't have kings full

If a card leaving the table isn't dead then I don't know when it is. If it is ruled live I might find a lot of winning cards on the floor.

Guess it depends on how you define a card leaving the table?

I wouldn't consider the card dead, since it landed above the table (on the edge, on top of a player's arm)
If the card had fell or the player shaked it off his arm I'd consider the card(s) dead.

Sounds like the card was always visible and above the table, so don't see a reason to rule it dead.
Picking up a card from under the table is a completely different story imo.

It was a hypothetical OP described. In which case I wouldn't keep my mouth shut because if the floor doesn't rule it dead then I am going to win every single hand after that.

You always keep a deck on hand for situations like these?
But yeah makes sense!

You would win one or maybe two hands after that before getting permanently barred and probably arrested.

He would win zero hands before being permanently barred because they would simply check for 52 different cards.

Royal wins ... Card on sleeve was never 'out of sight' or 'below rail' that may be ruled in some rooms. Even a card in the lap of a player could get the hand ruled dead in some rooms.

Would be interesting to see if ruling stands had there been a BBJ tied into it .. shouldn't matter. Obv the cards would have to be different.

Always an interesting topic when talking about potential holdings before showdown. What if only one of the Kings was face up? The 'intent' to muck got thwarted by the poker Gods here perhaps? GL

Of course he thinks he got screwed, people love trying to call hands dead on a technicality. That's the only way he can win.

I agree, the royals guy thought he lost the hand, didn't see the royal, but luckily for him he tabled his cards. If one of the cards landed on the floor, his hand would have been killed but I've seen many times where a card would land on rails and on other people's hands/arms that were retrievable and stayed live.

When you have kings and you start seeing that board, in your mind you think you lost. This is a good example why you should always table hands in big pots.

https://youtu.be/1aRA4cffC1Q

I think this would be more interesting if something slightly different happened. Like what if it landed on the other player's arm face down, and he then turned it face up himself?

Or what if it landed on his arm, either up or down, and then he lifted his arm and shook the card onto the floor?

What if the King of diamonds landed face up on the table, but the other card landed on the floor?