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Poker Tells/Behavior, hosted by: Zachary Elwood Discussions about poker tells, behavior, and psychology, with a focus on live poker.

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Old 06-10-2017, 12:31 AM   #1
Shai Hulud
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Immediately announcing all-in on turn card that completes straight, standing up

1/3 game at Derby Lane in Tampa, effective stacks ~$300

UTG straddles $6
CO bets $25
UTG calls $25

Flop: Q97 ($54)

UTG bets $50
CO calls $50

Turn: 8 ($154)

UTG immediately says "All-In," stands up, moves behind his chair, grabs the chair and leans in

What do we make of UTG's instant shove + standing up etc.?
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Old 06-10-2017, 01:33 PM   #2
SpewingIsMyMove
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Re: Immediately announcing all-in on turn card that completes straight, standing up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
1/3 game at Derby Lane in Tampa, effective stacks ~$300

UTG straddles $6
CO bets $25
UTG calls $25

Flop: Q97 ($54)

UTG bets $50
CO calls $50

Turn: 8 ($154)

UTG immediately says "All-In," stands up, moves behind his chair, grabs the chair and leans in

What do we make of UTG's instant shove + standing up etc.?
The all-in: if he is a newish player, it could inidcate he is playing his hand strength. If he is not newish, it could indicate a turned flush draw\straight draw, and he is semi-bluffing

The immediate action: less likely to be a complicated draw, as he would have paused for a second to figure it out. Seems like he had his mind made up before the move

The standing up: could just be mimicing what he sees on TV, could be excitement, could be nervousness.

Leaning in: Indicates a lack of defensive or protective body language

Taken as a whole, I think he is medium strong(TPNK, second pair) , but the turn did not hit his hand. He is overplaying his hand because you did not raise his flop donk. He thinks he is ahead, but isn't sure.
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Old 06-10-2017, 01:36 PM   #3
WharfRat1976
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Re: Immediately announcing all-in on turn card that completes straight, standing up

Well, without any other information, unless I have sets or 1 of the 2 flush draws I fold.

I probably fold sets though.

AA or KK and certainly AQ may go into the muck. The board is so wet.

1. He's acting strong so he's weak. (Call)
2. He's acting strong because he is strong. (Fold)
3. He's acting like a ****in idiot. (Call)
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Old 06-10-2017, 10:35 PM   #4
Shai Hulud
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Re: Immediately announcing all-in on turn card that completes straight, standing up

I'd only been playing about an hour but UTG was definitely a recreational player. He'd also been involved in a lot of big pots but it wasn't clear if he was running good or loose, though I'd lean toward the latter.

CO has 99 by the way.

@WharfRat1976

There's just one flush draw on the board (hearts). I thought UTG's immediate shove was very suspicious. Seems like if he had JT or 65 he would think a moment about bet size. Could possibly have a combo draw like 76 or T8, or just a good draw like AK or 86. Could have a made hand like AQ, KQ, QT or even A7. Could even be as weak as AK if he feels this is a good bluffing spot.

I guess the real question is how often does UTG actually have JT or 65 here? I would think very rarely. Wouldn't he think a moment before going all-in? Unless he's scared of the hearts...but still I think he would take a second or two. I feel like he mostly has semibluffs here.
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Old 06-11-2017, 02:10 PM   #5
PokerXanadu
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Re: Immediately announcing all-in on turn card that completes straight, standing up

Are you saying that CO has just one nine in his hand for a single pair (since 9 can't be both in his hand and on the board), or did you mis-write it and CO has pocket nines for a set?
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Old 06-11-2017, 06:43 PM   #6
Shai Hulud
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Re: Immediately announcing all-in on turn card that completes straight, standing up

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Originally Posted by PokerXanadu View Post
Are you saying that CO has just one nine in his hand for a single pair (since 9 can't be both in his hand and on the board), or did you mis-write it and CO has pocket nines for a set?
Sorry, miswrote it. That's supposed to be 99

CO has a set.

Spoiler:

Last edited by Shai Hulud; 06-11-2017 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 06-11-2017, 08:05 PM   #7
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Re: Immediately announcing all-in on turn card that completes straight, standing up

It was an ostentatious show of strength, trying to elicit a fold - a weak hand. There could be instances of an extremely skilled player doing the same as a false tell or a very amateur player doing it out of actual excitement, but those instances would be rare and probably obvious to an observant player.
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Old 06-13-2017, 02:19 AM   #8
WharfRat1976
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Re: Immediately announcing all-in on turn card that completes straight, standing up

Ahhhh, one flush draw and a set of 9s. I snap to the UTG jump up and shove. He shoved and stood with bottom pair and an Ace.

The guy called $25 with an A7off then flop bet $50 with bottom pair. Sounds like he was on tilt or just not a good player.
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Old 06-13-2017, 04:20 AM   #9
Shai Hulud
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Re: Immediately announcing all-in on turn card that completes straight, standing up

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Originally Posted by WharfRat1976 View Post
Ahhhh, one flush draw and a set of 9s. I snap to the UTG jump up and shove. He shoved and stood with bottom pair and an Ace.

The guy called $25 with an A7off then flop bet $50 with bottom pair. Sounds like he was on tilt or just not a good player.
He was definitely one of the poorer players at the table. Maybe the worst, though there were some bad weak/tight players also. This guy was pretty aggressive which was mostly working out for him until this hand. Also straddled too much, played too many pots, but wasn't afraid to double or triple barrel. CO was an obvious grinder (headphones in one ear, showed zero emotional reaction to winning/losing big pots, etc.) and not particularly bluffable so it was a pretty horrible bluff. I think UTG was on some kind of run-good bluffing tilt, as he'd won a lot of small to medium pots that didn't get to showdown so I assume he was bluffing a lot of those. Maybe he thought CO had TT-JJ, AQ, KQ, or KK+ and would fold to the turn shove, but I'm not so sure. CO had been isolating the fish frequently to get heads up, waiting for a hand like this I guess to let him bluff off his stack.

I instantly thought UTG was bluffing since he said "all in" way too quickly, but most of the table seemed quite surprised when he flipped over A7o, so I wanted to check the tell was reliable and I didn't just guess correctly. I was a little surprised he was THAT weak, expecting he had some kind of draw, but I didn't expect him to ever have the straight.
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:32 AM   #10
WharfRat1976
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Re: Immediately announcing all-in on turn card that completes straight, standing up

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Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
He was definitely one of the poorer players at the table. Maybe the worst, though there were some bad weak/tight players also. This guy was pretty aggressive which was mostly working out for him until this hand. Also straddled too much, played too many pots, but wasn't afraid to double or triple barrel. CO was an obvious grinder (headphones in one ear, showed zero emotional reaction to winning/losing big pots, etc.) and not particularly bluffable so it was a pretty horrible bluff. I think UTG was on some kind of run-good bluffing tilt, as he'd won a lot of small to medium pots that didn't get to showdown so I assume he was bluffing a lot of those. Maybe he thought CO had TT-JJ, AQ, KQ, or KK+ and would fold to the turn shove, but I'm not so sure. CO had been isolating the fish frequently to get heads up, waiting for a hand like this I guess to let him bluff off his stack.

I instantly thought UTG was bluffing since he said "all in" way too quickly, but most of the table seemed quite surprised when he flipped over A7o, so I wanted to check the tell was reliable and I didn't just guess correctly. I was a little surprised he was THAT weak, expecting he had some kind of draw, but I didn't expect him to ever have the straight.
Good read. Follow your gut in most spots. I try to....unless there is icm involved.
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