I would like to pose a question: Are there numbers for how much, if at all, online cash poker hurts the live poker rooms in the same state? I ask because my state, Illinois, is considering legalizing cash online. Now that we have legal doobie and online sports betting it will most likely pass. As get get older and with Covid and just the pain in the butt of driving anywhere online, even with its myriad issues, does look appealing. There is something very appealing about playing with my dog at my side and a glass of red wine in my hand.

Many live players will think "omg, this is great! I can play at home." They will them proceed to lose rapidly to multi tabling nit-nut peddlers. That in turn will turn them off to poker. Some will gravitate back to live , others may not. Action players/whales do not want to sit at home on a Friday and gambool it up at home. They want the atmosphere of the casino...

You won't find any "numbers" of if online hurts live. The study to be effective would take at least 5 years to complete, and all data could easily be contested as subjective...

When it passes you will decide what is best FOR YOU in terms of playing.

While online helped introduce people to poker and eventually push people into live casino poker prior to Black Friday; the level of play online today is vastly higher than 10 years ago and my guess is that prospective players would get wiped out online and give up, but there's no strong direct evidence.

It might get hurt some too by good players live multitabling on their device slowing the game down and making table tougher.

People get wiped out at slots, table games, sports betting, dice, roulette, pulltabs, horse racing, greyhound racing, or any other house edge game and yet, this doesn't stop them from buying into those games and smiling on the way out the door. I don't think winning players felting non-winning players is going to stop people from buying in and trying their "luck".

Fun players want fun. They get this more at the live tables with the conversation and the drinks and the promo board with the $200,000 unhittable jackpot that they can dream about and the atmosphere.

I'll continue to play live and hope they never bring back nationwide online poker. Black Friday...Best thing that ever happened to poker

I should have added above the face-to-face aspect of live poker, and not just concerning 'tells', which I believe to a certain extent is overrated. One thing I miss greatly in this Covid world is the challenge of battling people across the table and seeing how well I stack up. There are few ways to test oneself in this crappy world and while poker may not be the most profound it is better than nothing. Obviously that aspect of the game is missing online. I'm sure we've all run into our share of 'online tough guys' who quickly melt into the ether in the casino poker room.

It makes me wonder, if there was an online poker service that didn't allow multitabling (or maybe limited it to 2-4 tables max) would it be more popular, or would it fail because it didn't generate enough rake?

There's no profit advantage to being the card room that does this. It's kind of like being a no rake card room that would utilize ads instead of rake. Again, no profit advantage and would be a gameplay negative.

I think bovada already limits the number of tables to 4. Not sure though.

grunching

online makes live games much easier as it only draws away the kind of players you'd rather not have at your table

I'm not sure this is the case. I haven't seen a large skill difference in the game from fifteen years ago to now. If anything the game has gotten softer. There are fewer players trying to play well. They aren't putting in the study time. Don't have the patience for the live game. And those players that are winning the live game now are still only about 2-5% of all players because rake and promo drops forces losers. Full tables with short lists and huge unhittable jackpots keeps the fish coming back to the live game.

I think accumulating 'numbers' is virtually impossible and the way you phrase it we can assume that you believe that is does hurt live poker. I think you can effectively argue both ways and I'm not sure I would totally agree with either side.

I'm not so sure that we'll ever be able to eliminate the 'idea' that online games are rigged for action. LOTS of Regs play just to get out of the house, that's another factor that should never change (but you do now have an alternative when the weather kicks up).

This discussion could be never ending, but it would be very difficult to apply 'numbers' to it IMO. GL

i think you misinterpreted what he said. there is no gamble in online games anymore on public sites these days.in the old days ther was. losing live players are going to get destroyed way worse than they do live (both because of the pace of play and caliber of competition)and have zero fun in the process. it's not social in any way shape or form. so if people only have an hour or two to play or whatever it's better than nothing, but i doubt the kinds of players you want in your live games start staying home once live becomes legal in their state instead of going to the casino.

Right and bovada also has worse rake than other sites, no rakeback etc.

It could make total sense for a site to this.Rather than having lower rake and giving grinders 60+ percent of it back and having their fun players getting destroyed, keep the losing players a more fun experience with much higher rake. In bovada's case it also keeps more money available to be lost in their casino/sportsbook.

I live in a state where there is no legal online poker and before that I played regularly on PS. I have put some money over the years into the outlaw sites after black Friday and have found that I just don't like the online game any where near the live game. There's no way to put a number on it but I'd guess the good players that are drawn to online poker even in an illegal state are still finding a way to play online as we all know there is a market for it. Opening up legal online poker takes some fish away no matter what.

My theory: no.

Anything that makes cardrooms more accesible and mainstream is a good thing.

Though the online poker economy is in a very bad place right now, and it may have less of a positive impact.

I think legalized online poker in a state does two things:

1. It expands the overall pool of poker players. Lots of players deposit some money online and lose it over a few weeks but get hooked enough to then play in a casino and lose money (but have fun).
2. It greatly increases the skill base of a portion of the player pool. A good size portion increases their skill moderately, a small portion increases their skill greatly.

The overall effect depends on lots of factors (how newbie friendly the online sites are, how they are promoted, etc).

My opinion is that online poker helps live poker especially in bigger games.

Before "Black Friday" Foxwoods 20/40 LHE was one of the best in the country. After "Black Friday" it took maybe 6 months to a year for the online players who descended on Foxwoods to destroy the game.

Previously the fish won occasionally. Once the really excellent Pros came to the game the fish never won and as a result eventually quit the game. At that point I became the fish - and I also quit the game.

Online poker allows the truly great players to multi table so their winnings will far exceed anything they could make at a live table. Also no commute.

I also think that online poker allows players to understand how the game works in an official card room as opposed to a home game. Once the process is learned it makes transition to a live game easier. So maybe we get more newbies when there is online poker in our states.

I realize that we will get some good players as well. Just not the best of the best in all likelihood.