I have played some smallish NLHE Tournament vs some good average and bad players.

When I first began to play and are not looking for a call against some of the regs I tend to avoid eye contact i often looked off too the floor or stare into space when I want I call I sometimes stare at the player

Is this a good way to try and give my opponent a thinking player who doesn't know me a false read on my had as I have seen that players like to stare down when they have nothing to try and look strong or should I just play each hand the same way.

I guess it is reverse psychology and I have found that this has worked for me in the past esp when players go into the tank

Am I overthinking things? or is this something that you yourself have used yourself?

Any info on aye contact would really be of great help and I appresciate any responses.

Thanks.

If its a super close decision and the villain is staring at me it might push me into a call, however probably only vs someone I think is not very experienced live, the reason being that when I started playing live I used to give em the old Timex stare, but only when wanting a fold. But, especially against more experienced players, I'd look for other things as more important.

I agree with Eurgh. This used to be the tell I most relied on, but I have noticed that players who are comfortable can often stare at you just to see what you are doing. I would only take super intense stares from weaker players into consideration.

This is actually an interesting area. In my opinion, players with eye-contact-when-betting tells will fall into two categories:

1) Looking more at opponents when betting strong hands and avoiding eye contact when bluffing
2) Looking more at opponent when bluffing and avoiding eye contact when betting strong hands

This might seem to not be useful as they are polar opposites, but in my experience these can be player-specific tells that, once you notice them, can be very powerful and reliable.

Notice that I didn't say that everyone has these tells. A lot of players are consistent or varied in their behavior, so they'll be hard to read. But for the players that have these tells, they can be powerful. So it's just a matter of trying to see what people do with their eyes after betting and trying to see if you spot any patterns.

Also worth noting: it's much easier to get tells of strength than it is to get tells of weakness. Usually the important information will be what the player does that is out of the ordinary for that player. For example, if a player makes a point to always stare at his opponents and then he doesn't do that when betting in one hand, it's become more likely he's strong. Same idea: if he usually avoids eye contact in most spots but then you see him making eye contact when betting it's become more likely he's strong. Much easier to get reads of strength than weakness.

I think the first behavior is more likely for most recreational players; most rec players like to relax when they have strong hands, so they're capable of interacting more and looking at opponents more. And rec players don't like to interact when they're bluffing and just like to avoid interaction. I basically always assume this about players I perceive as fairly inexperienced until I see evidence otherwise.

But both tendencies do exist. Here's a video I made about a very reliable tell I spotted from Pius Heinz in the 2011 WSOP Main Event, where he made a point to stare at his opponent during the HU end of the game, but then would avoid eye contact when betting strong hands.



Actually, I realized after I made this video that there were some hands I had missed, including a couple where he had strong hands and avoided eye contact again, so the read was even more reliable than I thought when I made that video.

Awesome post APokerPlayer and very interesting video, Thanks

I am a recreational player and just realized that I fit well within category 1. I learned a lot from this post and will take immediate notice of it the next time I get to play. Is it true that a recreational player would site back and relax if he/she were dealt good cards, but would suddenly take much more notice of what happens on the table throughout the round. I.e., doing much more scouting making sure they did not lose out on possible tells?

I think this is generally true, yeah. I think it's generally true for even good players, who also want to try to pick up stuff more often when they've got weak hands. When a player is waiting to act and doesn't seem interested in his opponent, this can be a clue that a player has a strong hand and is just 'playing his cards'. But in general it'll be hard to make use of that because many players do stay pretty stoic in most spots with whatever they've got.

This kind of fits into the general mold of "when players who are waiting for opponents to act do ostentatious things it'll make weak hands more likely". Because players with strong hands who are waiting for an opponent to act generally don't want to 'get in the way' of their bet.

Am I understanding this correctly? A player with strong hands would not want to behave in a way that would scare opponents into folding. He/she believes in his/her hands so strongly that he/she would hope opponents would continue raising for as long as possible in order to gain a higher pot?

However, if I had weak cards, I would generally act in a manner to frighten an opponent for the purpose of making them insecure about the situation?

Be careful here. As you play more experienced players, they will eventually pick up on your patterns, whether they are intentional or not. Your best bet is to practice consistency regardless of strength or completely random and inconsisten behavior. Better players will only use your behaviors as a very small piece of a larger puzzle as to what story you are telling. Remember every hand is two stories... A story you are trying to tell based on your actions, and the story your opponent reads by your actions. Many mid skill and low skill players tend to compartmentalize the hands and represent hands based on a turn or river card when their actions prior to that point don't tell the same story.

Most common example is when a turn and river come to make a 3 card flush on the board and a player bets big trying to represent a made flush. They do this, not realizing that all of their actions prior to that point suggest that they had anything BUT a potential for a runner runner flush.

Thanks for providing further expertise. I will keep this in mind. It's good to follow the first advice in the beginning to get a slight feel for how some low level players may behave, but will make sure I practise consistency on my own part.

Your last comment was a neat insight

How fast do you usually pick up if someone is exactly at beginner, mid or advanced level? How many rounds do you usually have to generally play? Do advanved players ever "pretend" to be beginners, like pool hustling? haha

For me, there are a few factors in determining skill level of an opponent that I've never seen before. First and foremost is stakes. It is very rare to have an advanced player in a 1-2 game, and it's also rare to have a novice in a 5-10 or 10-25 game (unless they are rich fools... But they stick out right away).

Next thing I look for is their comfort and confidence in everything going on that is NOT part of the hand. Do they know where the blinds are, whose turn to act, how to tip, what the minimum raises are, how to protect their hand, how to bet properly, how to muck, do they misread a board or a hand, etc. Talk about tells... Low level players make mistakes in these areas all the time, so that can tell you a lot about then.

After that, it's range. On a TTJ25 board, a player might win a huge pot with TJ and you think that they are tight aggressive. But if they called a large pre flop raise with the TJ, it tells a different story. I'm always looking to see what starting hands my opponents are playing and willing to call raises with, and in what position. That too tells me about their skill and their style.

Interesting. Just out of curiousity, how are you supposed to tip? Do you mean tipping the waiter/waitress, and if so, is the method always similar or does it differ from venue to venue?

He means tipping the dealer when you win a pot, varies on the stakes, but generally people will either tip a set amount regardless of pot or a certain % of the pot. I tend to tip 1 BB unless I win a huge pot, which obvs never happens.

Or... Do they not tip at all? Do they know how to ask a dealer to chop a chip? Do they know to chop blinds,etc.

Another little twist to eye contact is how fast they divert their eyes (and head) when they 'catch' you looking at them. If they move their eyes and head at the same time they tend to be 'vulnerable' to the board.

As with all tells it can be totally different in the opposite scenario. I have found that if a player bets and then is staring at me on the River, then it has been a weaker holding most often. They stare and almost glare at you until you look at them. They want to appear strong and are 'offering' the challenge of a call, but they really don't want a call. If you catch the glare and they feel you got 'the message' then they may revert back to their more normal behavior, whatever that is.

On earlier streets you really need to follow Zach's breakdown of 'waiting to act' or 'post bet' actions. Most typically a player who has bet but isn't really paying attention to the rest of the action is strong, but a player intently watching action may be strong or weak .. maybe just 'worried' a little bit. You need some history to work with here as there are plenty of people with AA who are still 'worried' about their hand. And yet others who feel AA is the nuts and they will deal with whatever they need to when it gets back around to them.

"Waiting to act" seems to be the most telling IMO, especially PF when players look at their cards before it's their turn to act. A player who looks at their cards and then leans in, stops a conversation or starts following the action with their eyes tends to have an above average holding 'for their range'. The most powerful string of actions is ... 1) Look at cards .. 2) Glance down at stack .. 3) Start to follow actions with eyes.

I kind of wondered here a bit .. but that's me .. GL

I forgot poker was a physical game

good discussion guys

Personally, i make eye contact when value betting cuz I am trying to look nervous. When bluffing, no eye contact whatsoever.

I think I only use eye contact prior to betting, like reading them when they first glance at the cards. Using eye contact as a meaningful tool at my stakes seems stupid and people who do it make fools of themselves imo. In my games nobody else looks up?
I attempt to not give a tell once im in a hand so I stop my incessant banter and dont look at players in the hand, I will give eye contact to people not in the hand and see how they react and thats a bit of a mirror to how im viewed. I tend to be softplayed for some reason? and multiple opponents give me free info via facial expressions. More on topic- dont change things based on your hand, youre not an expert. Tom Dwan just stared into the distance and he may be working in a massage parlor now but thats another subject.

if you are not very experienced and aren't completely comfortable at the tables, it is best to stay consistent in your mannerisms with strong and weak hands.

By staying consisting in your mannerisms, it is easier to pay more attention to others. When your attention is on yourself, you miss many things. Do not only look for how often they make eye contact or not, but also to how they react to others eye contact.