Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
It's pretty hard to eliminate all possible tells at low stakes. There are other traits that go along with the timing of bets. Most low stakes players know enough about the game to know when a 'decision' needs to be made and will allow you the benefit a some 'extra' time. The issue is that the amount of time changes based on the decision IMO.
You will actually attract more attention at low stakes if you 'tank' on every decision than if you just pick 'appropriate' spots to tank. For a low stakes Player, there is no reason to tank a Turn decision on AxKy9x2z ... nothing changed from the Flop, so unless you are facing a polarizing bet it should be 'easier' to decide to call/raise/fold this decision than the decision you made on the Flop.
Certainly you should get 'extra' time when facing a 3-bet, especially if you opened. But if you are facing an open and 3-bet players know enough about the game that your range should be pretty small here to tank 'every' time. GL
I get what you're saying in that the turn rarely changes anything, but my action on the turn can affect the probability I was slowplaying a monster. In the example you give, let's say I have AQ and call OTF. The turn doesn't change anything unless I spiked a set. But if I quickly call a turn bet it pretty much eliminates AA KK and AK from my range and makes it very likely I have a FD or a strong Ace. Villains paying attention should be able to pick up when I have a marginal strength hand vs. when I'm polarized, which is not good.
This is mostly a problem when I'm the aggressor. For instance, I open J
T
in the CO, BB calls, flop A
9
2
, BB x, and I decide (correctly or not) to C-bet here. BB calls. Turn is say the 8
, BB x, and I fire again. He calls. I've acted reasonably quickly in both spots because I picked up a ton of equity OTT. Now the river is the 3
. I missed, but I may be able to bluff here. However if I try to act within 5s I'm likely to mess up. So I take more like 30s, maybe longer. If villain is paying attention to me he knows I likely have a big flush or air.
I'm sure you see the problem. If I act quickly on later streets I'm not bluffing, but I'm probably not nutted either. If I'm bluffing I need time to think about villain's range and whether he'll fold enough for a bluff to be profitable. If I'm nutted I take some time to think about villain's range and what the optimum bet size is. So... I don't think people can tell if I'm bluffing or not but they might be able to tell when I'm polarized.
I used to try tanking in all kinds of unnecessary spots but I was getting clocked once a week. Now I've gotten better at acting quickly in simple spots and try just to tank when I close the action and actually need to think, as if I'm closing the action it doesn't really matter what info I leak. But the problem still remains of certain spots where I have choices and acting fast makes it probable I'm not considering certain choices (like if I call fast I'm not considering raising, and if I quickly raise I'm not considering calling).
Preflop vs a 3-bet I always take at least 10s. That's about all I need because it's usually not that complicated whether I 4-bet, but often I only "need" 1s. Like I bet, OMC min 3-bets me, I'm never 4-betting him with 99. It's a 100% call, but snap calling seems to turn my hand face up so I don't even when I can. When I 3-bet someone and they snap call I'm immediately removing some JJ, QQ, and AK combos they might have if they took longer to act.
I guess getting faster at ranging villains is the best cure for this problem, as the only other one I can see is always tanking to match the *longest* I ever genuinely need, which is really bad for the game for a lot of reasons.