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Old 10-20-2016, 04:38 AM   #26
volcano41
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

You must have life to get in the way. Ive never played for an hour or 3, ever, closing time or busto is how I leave.
I tend to make money but when I take a day off- I may stay up all night till 8 am due to lack of mental stimulation. I may be addicted LOL.

I am not chasing a high. When I hit a big hand its fun but Its nothing like hitting a craps roll- thats full heart racing gamble which I never allow myself to experience in poker, gotta reign it in.

Last edited by volcano41; 10-20-2016 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 10-20-2016, 06:12 AM   #27
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by volcano41 View Post
You must have life to get in the way. Ive never played for an hour or 3, ever, closing time or busto is how I leave.
I tend to make money but when I take a day off- I may stay up all night till 8 am due to lack of mental stimulation. I may be addicted LOL.

I am not chasing a high. When I hit a big hand its fun but Its nothing like hitting a craps roll- thats full heart racing gamble which I never allow myself to experience in poker, gotta reign it in.
That's not an addiction, but rather an obsession.
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Old 07-10-2017, 12:32 PM   #28
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

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Originally Posted by frankie boyle View Post
I remember drunkenly ****ing a girl and thinking "this is nearly as good as getting aces"
- I knew there and then I was addicted to poker.
Some of them are even better than getting aces.
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Old 07-11-2017, 01:10 AM   #29
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

This thread belongs in the Psychology forum, which I believe already has related threads.
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:14 AM   #30
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

Yes.
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:37 PM   #31
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

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Originally Posted by frankie boyle View Post
I remember drunkenly ****ing a girl and thinking "this is nearly as good as flopping a set"
- I knew there and then I was addicted to poker.
FTFY
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Old 07-15-2017, 05:36 AM   #32
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

the addiction for me is constantly proving to myself that i am not on a lucky streak. And i get super greedy with my winnings i treat it like hard money i earned. In short, I am always at square 1 and never happy.
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:56 PM   #33
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

Plenty of people are addicted to their jobs, why should poker be any different. Some need more balance than others but only you can say how much balance you need in your life.
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Old 07-15-2017, 10:04 PM   #34
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

I think people are loosely defining addiction. Here is a blurb from the Anerican Society of Addiction Medicine

"Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death."


The key here is that addiction is a physical rewiring of the brains reward seeking circuitry and is progressive.

Someone who has a drink or two every day to take the edge off is not an addict. Someone who escalates their drinking to achieve a physiological reward is an addict.

Poker can trigger the same type of endorphin response that other risk taking activities can trigger. If you are an addict, you will be locked into a cycle of escalating behavior to try and achieve the same reward. There is no way to play winning poker if you are physically conditioned to seek greater risks to achieve the same reward.

Being drawn to an activity, or being deeply committed to an activity, is not the same as being addicted to it. Addiction is an unmanaged compulsion. There is a reason that most (drug\alcohol\whatever) addicts are not able to just scale back and must quit cold turkey.

I do not think it is possible for a true poker\gambling addict to be a winner over a significant sample size.
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:07 AM   #35
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

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Originally Posted by gnatie View Post
(1) We tend to use the word "addiction" to only mean bad things. Addiction only becomes bad when it messes up your life and/or your health and/or the lives/health of the people who love you.

You think marathoners aren't addicted to running? Runners doing it right get a high from the experience; endorphins kick ass.

I guess there is a pretty simple example - have you/would you accidentally miss a moment that is important to a loved one or close friend because of the game? Do you keep playing when you know that another hour will mean that it won't be safe for you to drive?

(2) If you are really worried, well, talk to a professional. They know what questions to ask in order to help get to the heart of what is going on.
Well said!

I remember another thread where a woman thought her boyfriend was addicted because he played too much. She could have been right, but I don't think that she understood how many hours you have to study and play to make a decent income. I gave her two things to think about:

1. When I had a "real job" I would often scoop up all of the voluntary overtime I could get, sometimes working 60 hours in a week. Did that make me addicted to my job? Nope, my wife and I wanted to get completely out of debt and pay cash for everything* as soon as possible.

2. Cellist Yo-Yo Ma is one of most popular classical musicians in the World. He has performed at the White House and been on The Simpsons. He lives a very glamorous life--someone heard him practicing scales in his hotel room for six straight hours.

Does that make him a music addict?

----------

*I had to have a credit card for poker because most debit cards at that time were not set up for international transactions. I don't know whether that is still the case.
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Old 08-19-2017, 05:30 AM   #36
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

I just found out yesterday about the movie "Drawing Dead." It compares the lives of two poker players. One was a gambler that got to the point where he was stealing to fund his poker playing. He was kicked out of two colleges.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2741098/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

The other player was Dusty Schmidt, who won millions playing cash games.
Schmidt wrote a book that I recommend for any serious player, How to Treat Your Poker Like a Business.

https://www.amazon.com/Treat-Your-Po...+schmidt+poker
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Old 08-20-2017, 03:45 PM   #37
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

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Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
The issue is that people who are addicted or compulsive gamblers will eventually become losing players. Their search for that high that comes from winning will lead them to playing too long, playing at stakes or in games they shouldn't, or taking larger and larger risks.

Why do you play too long? What do you feel like if you don't play? Why can't you walk away from a losing session?

It is good that you are not spewing or escalating behavior, but you need to question your need to play.

There is a reason why a lot of truly great poker players are broke.
Def a lot of players who fall into that realm but for sure there are players who are hooked and just need the competition and place profitability as no 1 priority. One can always move down a level or two, make money and still scratch that itch.
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Old 08-21-2017, 01:07 AM   #38
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

I'm always surprised how many people come to a poker forum to talk about how poker is bad for you. It seems like there is always a new thread with a topic like these:

Can you have a relationship and poker?
Can two poker players have a relationship?
Is it possible to be great at poker and have a social life?
How do I explain to my friends where I get my money?
It goes on and on, all the ways that playing poker screws up your life.

I don't get it. I went through a time when my city had the highest unemployment rate in the United States and I fought for every job I could get, even for a day and I was glad to have it. I wish I know about poker then.

I have worked on a factory floor and in the office. I've been a day laborer, professional musician, radio announcer, supervisor at a homeless shelter, a soldier (two units, infantry and army band), agricultural worker, academic proofreader, county campaign headquarters manager, and at least 20 others.

Poker is just another job. If I had to rank them, poker would be #3, because it's the only time that I have ever been my own boss. (Army band and academic proofreader were the top two because I got to work with people who had 99th percentile IQs*, which is incredibly fun and stimulating.)

On one job I drove 40 miles each way for temp work. On another I sometimes worked all three shifts (1st, 2nd and 3rd) in the same week. Some were very physically difficult. On at least three I was the only one in the building, or at least the only one awake.

What I'm saying is that every job has its challenges. Poker is no different. I think that poker players worry way too much about way too many things.

------

*On a ranking of intelligence by profession, classical musicians were placed above physicists.

Last edited by Poker Clif; 08-21-2017 at 01:10 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:10 AM   #39
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

Feel like anyone can be addicted to anything. Like cheese popcorn.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:41 AM   #40
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

I order to be a good player you have to live, eat, sleep poker. You're making money, so doesn't that make you a workaholic?
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:39 PM   #41
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
I think people are loosely defining addiction. Here is a blurb from the Anerican Society of Addiction Medicine

"Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death."


The key here is that addiction is a physical rewiring of the brains reward seeking circuitry and is progressive.

Someone who has a drink or two every day to take the edge off is not an addict. Someone who escalates their drinking to achieve a physiological reward is an addict.

Poker can trigger the same type of endorphin response that other risk taking activities can trigger. If you are an addict, you will be locked into a cycle of escalating behavior to try and achieve the same reward. There is no way to play winning poker if you are physically conditioned to seek greater risks to achieve the same reward.

Being drawn to an activity, or being deeply committed to an activity, is not the same as being addicted to it. Addiction is an unmanaged compulsion. There is a reason that most (drug\alcohol\whatever) addicts are not able to just scale back and must quit cold turkey.

I do not think it is possible for a true poker\gambling addict to be a winner over a significant sample size.
This is partially correct. It does not explain the cause and condition of addiction or compulsive gambling, drinking, eating, sex or smoki g ir any other compulsive behavior.

Addiction is merely another symptom. Just like compulsive drinking is a symptom of alcoholism.
Gambling to financial ruin is also a syptom of gambling addiction. Over eating, drug addiction, etc. etc.

The causes and conditions for most compulsive addictive behavior is selfishness and self centeredness and Ego. Combine these with low self esteem, a ton of resentment, jealousy,sloth, greed and wrap these all up with SHAME and GUILT and a victim mentality and you have an addict.

The addict hates themself. Their life is one of negative self talk. It creates FEAR, DEPRESSION, LONELINESS, TERROR, BEWILDERMENT AND FEAR. It causes troubled relationships, loss of jobs, inability to earn money, jail and death.

The gambling addict lives in a very simple but highly complex cycle. It usually starts with losses from a previous bet. Then the bubbling thought process begins as to how to win this money back. How to cover the loss. Hours and hours of time are spent planning their next move. Often it involves how to get their hands on more money to gamble.

They will lie cheat and steal from anyone and anything to create the opportunity. This can take days, weeks even. The climax of excitement is when the next wager is placed. All the time prior is also very exciting to the addict. There is much fantasy involved. It creates euphoria and releases dopamine as previously stated.

The planning stage of placing the next wager is as exciting as actually placing the wager.

The addicts entire life is consumed with this process. It becomes more important than family, children, financial solvency, anything.

When the bet loses, then the terror, fear, depression, anxiety and worry set back in and the only way to relieve these emotions is to start the process all over again.

Once this behavior is fully ingrained only an act of God, or being locked up or dying will stop it.

If anyone doubts this please read up on the life of Art Schlichter. Art is a case study. There are 1000's more cases. I have seen men lose their homes on golf betting and continue to gamble. I have seen lives destroyed and families ripped apart.

Many reading this will not be this far gone. Art Schlichter was once just like you. He started slowly, won some bets then went from there. It looked like easy money. It ended up costing him everything.

EVERY addict says it cant happen to me. EVERY addict says MY CASE IS DIFFERENT.
EVERY addict is in denial.

Have you ever said the following:
1. I only gamble what I can afford to lose.
2. Lied by saying I'm up a little bit, I'm down a little bit, I am about even on the month...and its all actually a BIG LIE.

Recovery starts with abstinence first then building up self worth, self esteem and filling the spiritual void.

The lying and deceit has to stop for recovery to begin.

Here is another good list of questions you can ask yourself.

Do you or does someone you know like to bet on games of chance? Here are ten signs and indicators to help you detect when gambling is becoming a problem. They will help you take stock of the situation.

*

Ten signs of a gambling problem:

*

Lying

Chasing losses

Borrowing money

Always betting more

Being obsessed with gambling

Being unable to stop gambling

Gambling out of need

Gambling to forget

Stealing or committing fraud to gamble

Gambling because it is the most important thing in the world

Lying

People who have gambling problems generally try to hide it from the people around them. They start lying to their spouses, families, coworkers, and friends.

“Chasing” losses

Some gamblers say they are just trying to win back the money they have lost. They will claim that once they win big, they will stop. Or that they lost because they changed strategies or were not lucky. But when they chase their losses, they end up piling up even more losses, and often debts.

Borrowing money

What do pathological gamblers do when gambling puts them into a financial hole? They borrow—from their family, friends, coworkers, or even strangers, without always admitting the real reason they need the money. They may also have other people pay their gambling debts. They may max out their credit cards or take out a second mortgage.

Always betting more

Like someone who has drugs or alcohol problems, problem gamblers have to up their “dose” of gambling to enjoy it. In other words, they have to bet more and more money to get the kind of rush they want. Unfortunately, the more they bet, the more they lose.

Being obsessed with gambling

When this happens, gamblers cannot stop thinking about the last time they gambled and the next time they will. Any reason is reason enough to go gambling, and they will try any strategy to get the money they need.

Being unable to stop gambling

Many gamblers know they should not gamble so much, and want to quit. They try repeatedly, but cannot fight the urge to play.

Gambling out of need

When trying to cut down on their gambling or stop altogether, some gamblers experience “psychological withdrawal symptoms.” Like someone who has a drug or alcohol problem, they become irritable, impatient, agitated, or tense if they do not get their “dose” of gambling.

Gambling to forget

These gamblers play to distract themselves, forget their problems, and reduce their stress. The game is not just entertainment for them. It is something they do to feel better and escape from whatever is bothering them. And then the gambling itself causes

Stealing or committing fraud to gamble

Despite their losses, problem gamblers continueplaying, and their finances keep getting worse. Borrowing money from family, friends, and coworkers is no longer enough. To fund their habit and try to solve their problems by hitting the jackpot, they turn to misdeeds and crime.

Gambling because it is the most important thing in the world

Gamblers can become so addicted to the game and the hope to win it all back that they fall into ever-deeper financial, social, and professional trouble. Everything about their lives gradually revolves around and is affected by gambling. It puts their families, friendships, studies, jobs, and future career prospects at risk.
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:43 PM   #42
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

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Originally Posted by Reubenr676 View Post
I think most people that make money can get addicted to what they're doing. If you're good at something and you're making money are you actually addicted?
Winning or losing has zero to do with addiction. Nothing.
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:45 PM   #43
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

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I doubt I'm alone in thinking I'm more obsessed than addicted... I obsess easily about things, from poker chips, to learning poker, to being on this forum, etc... I'm not playing poker all the time that I can, but I am doing *something* poker related for many hours every day, from reading books to reading forums, etc...

Does that mean I'm addicted? Maybe... I prefer obsessed, even if that isn't exactly a glamorous title.

My wife tells me I obsess over things, and quite often I agree, I obsess until I am really good at it, or am very knowledgeable in whatever field, which I enjoy. On this forum I may not be at the top of the poker knowledge field, but in my daily travels, I'm in the top couple percent for sure, and in regards to live poker friends, I'm probably top 5%.

I would consider it a bad addiction if i was spending money I didn't have, spending time that was unhealthy (losing sleep, relationships, meals), or otherwise damaged my livilyhood.

My two cents...
Classic denial language.

Do you say po ta toe or po tah toe?
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:47 PM   #44
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

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In answer to the question, of course you can be. If something makes you feel good, like winning at poker, then it can easily become something you become addicted to. You're just lucky or talented enough that it's not doing you any harm.

I think a lot of addictions work that way. The general population is addicted to a bunch of stuff that is ultimately quite harmless: television, coffee, specific types of food, sex, hobbies like videogames etc.

Addiction has negative connotations because it indicates a lack of control and when the thing you're addicted to has harmful consequences then that's when it becomes a problem.



Becoming desperate for a win when you're down is a likely symptom of addiction in that it is compulsive, but it doesn't have to be. You could be in control of your play, not tilt, not care about table image, and still be addicted.



This is not true. In a game like poker, where there is an element of skill, why should an addicted or compulsive gambler eventually become a losing player if they consistently play with skill? Do you think that anyone that keeps playing will eventually lose?
They could. Variance is a B. The addict wont stay woth playing Joldem as their only game. It wont be enough of a rush after a while.
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Old 09-05-2017, 03:50 PM   #45
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

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I really like your question. Having spoken to professionals in the mental health world about this exact issue, it is safe to say that you can be addicted to poker and be a winning player. I don't know for a fact, but I'm sure it true that almost every person who has played poker professionally has been addicted to poker at some point in their career.

No two addictions are the same; and no addiction is going to be the same for the person experiencing it. There is a difference between being addicted to poker, being addicted to gambling, being addicted to winning, or being addicted to cocaine. My experience with addiction is going to be different than everyone elses.

Personally, I was addicted to winning more than I was addicted to poker. I like poker, but I love winning. If I'm not winning, I have little desire to play. I go on a heater, and I'll be at the casino, or thinking about going to the casino, until I'm not. Has this led to problems in my personal life? For sure. But at the same time, I've won A LOT of money playing poker. I can't even tell if you the problems have outweighed the financial windfall. It might not even be able to quantify...

Being addicted isn't necessarily a bad thing. As many people have pointed out, as long as its not taking priority over more important aspects of your life, it probably isn't a bad thing. If you find yourself flaking on friends, ditching work, missing out on family time, or discontinuing another healthy habits (exercise, and the like), then your addiction is probably a problem.

However, people in my office are addicted to work--but they make seven figures, so many would just call them successful. In the corporate world, this is seen as less of a problem because it doesn't involve gambling. "Work/Life Balance" is common theme in most big companies; and as long as you can achieve an appropriate poker/life balance, I don't think being addicted to poker is, per se, a bad thing.
WRONG. There are over 300 12 step programs all using the same 12 steps to recover.

The 12 steps work universally for all addiction.

Sure, gambling is not sex is not drug addiction is not alcoholism. The point is the underlying cause and condition is ALL THE SAME FOR EVERYONE.
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:00 AM   #46
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

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Originally Posted by NZdice
Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?
Poker is an addictive game, so yes. It is a lot like caffeine.
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:01 PM   #47
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

It occurs to me that one good test of addiction is what happens when you can't have that thing any more, whether that thing is heroin, sex, alcohol or poker.

What happens when that thing is gone? Do do lie and steal to get it back? Do you take drugs to replace the high that you used to be on? Do you put that thing above your family, your job, or your freedom?

Could that happen with poker? Yes, it can and it does, but I don't see how it could be common, especially if it's tournament poker. Where is the rush in buying in for $100 and playing for five hours to find out if you cash?

When I played online in August it was a train wreck. I was facing by far my worst month of the year, perhaps my worst month ever. Two big MTT cashes, a 3rd place on 8/25 and a 1st place on 8/26, turned my train wreck into a small profit.

Two good days out of 26 isn't going to be enough of a rush, often enough, to feed anyone's addiction.
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Old 09-09-2017, 12:49 PM   #48
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

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Originally Posted by Poker Clif View Post
It occurs to me that one good test of addiction is what happens when you can't have that thing any more, whether that thing is heroin, sex, alcohol or poker.

What happens when that thing is gone? Do do lie and steal to get it back? Do you take drugs to replace the high that you used to be on? Do you put that thing above your family, your job, or your freedom?

Could that happen with poker? Yes, it can and it does, but I don't see how it could be common, especially if it's tournament poker. Where is the rush in buying in for $100 and playing for five hours to find out if you cash?

When I played online in August it was a train wreck. I was facing by far my worst month of the year, perhaps my worst month ever. Two big MTT cashes, a 3rd place on 8/25 and a 1st place on 8/26, turned my train wreck into a small profit.

Two good days out of 26 isn't going to be enough of a rush, often enough, to feed anyone's addiction.
Id say 1 in 10 is a compulsive gambler.
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Old 09-10-2017, 08:46 AM   #49
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

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Originally Posted by MofoAgro View Post
The addict wont stay woth playing Joldem as their only game. It wont be enough of a rush after a while.
If you play Omaha, you are addicted to the rush. I'm only partially kidding.
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:21 AM   #50
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Re: Can You Be Addicted to Poker as a Winning Player?

Addiction is only an issue to the extent that it negatively affects your life. People are hostile to the word because it's generally used as a pejorative, but if you crush big games and work similar hours to any other job, who cares of you're a poker addict?
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