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Poker Tells/Behavior, hosted by: Zachary Elwood Discussions about poker tells, behavior, and psychology, with a focus on live poker.

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Old 07-15-2017, 01:36 AM   #1
HelloFriends
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Angle or not?

I'm posting this here since it's more of a tell based guessing game than anything else, and over at LCP it would just be a 50/50 situation.

Last night I played the PokerStars Festival Open (live) in Korea, day 1A. These events attracts a lot of regs traveling the region and as I sat down I noticed that the dealers/floor are Filipino and half the table as well. To my right is a nice French guy, to his right is the "villain" in this tale. He is Filipino.

Towards the end of level 1 (25/50) this hand goes down:

French raises 150 from UTG and it folds to Villain in the BB who calls. The flop comes 942

Now V reaches for chips and puts in a bet of 7.000. He puts in one 5k chip and two 1k. Two seconds goes by (by estimate) and then he takes them back and puts in one 100 chip and two 25s, to indicate he meant to make it 150. Now the dealer chimes in and says the initial bet stands, it must be 7k. As it happens one of the floor men is standing right by the table and states that 7k is the bet.

Since this is very early in the tournament both players have about 15k stacks. My French buddy goes into the tank and says "i don't think I can fold this. If this is an angle it's pretty sick". Villain just shrugs, I'm not sure if he speaks English to be fair.

French eventually jams and gets snap called. French shows 44 and Villain has A5.

The set holds and V is eliminated. After he leaves there is a big discussion if it was an angle or not. One guy says he's seen him do that before, but goes a little defensive when I ask flat out.

Granted, I have a very limited time with V (28 mins?), but I can speculate based on that short time.

It was an angle:
He looked to be a seasoned player. Chip tricks, the way he handled his cards, the overall comfort level at the table.
The chip colors are not even remotely similar, clearly states denomination too.
From my perspective the move itself looked rehearsed; he didn't look flabbergasted upon realizing his error and the call when facing jam came very quickly.
We have one guy who maybe saw this angle from V before? Not a very reliable witness tho.

It was not an angle:
The strength of his hand seems dubious.
I guess he has to call the jam from Francois with any heart/ace whatevs?
If it was rehearsed, wouldn't he protest and plead his case and then sigh call the jam?
Plus, this happens all the time at live poker?
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:29 AM   #2
SpewingIsMyMove
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Re: Angle or not?

would be a very difficult move to pull as an angle. usually the misclick angle is meant to get more chips in the pot while appearing weak. Getting more chips in while weak seems to be counter productive. Not sure what the angle is, unless he wanted to play for 300 bb with a gutshot and a 5 high flush draw. If it was some type of leveled bluff, it seems to be a poor move to risk 140bb to win 3bb

Can't see how this is an angle.
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Old 07-15-2017, 04:01 PM   #3
StarGrinder
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Re: Angle or not?

I've seen this angle a few times at live cash but it's usually the angler who has the better hand. This just looks like a terrible bluff. If it was an angle, lol then.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:00 PM   #4
madlex
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Re: Angle or not?

Absolutely looks like an angle but the hand he does that with makes no sense at all. Super weird, but based on the description I'd say it's more likely he either has no clue what he's doing or misreading his hand than him not angling.

Have seen that several times in cash games and everytime it was a nuttish hand.
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Old 07-15-2017, 08:41 PM   #5
apokerplayer
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Re: Angle or not?

Can't see how it's an angle unless I'm missing something. If he had a strong hand, maybe, but not a weak one.
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:11 AM   #6
BruhKGB
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Re: Angle or not?

Agree with the others... the action itself looks like an angle but his hand doesn't line up.

Same here, seen this angle a few times in cash games and the player doing it had the absolute nuts and was angling for a call.

Guess I could see someone trying this in the closing stages of a tourney to possibly induce a fold, but not in level 1.
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Old 07-16-2017, 05:51 AM   #7
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Re: Angle or not?

I'm glad we reached a conclusion on this.

I was expecting to see nuts when he called the jam, so this was my reaction too.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:12 AM   #8
jeccross
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Re: Angle or not?

Maybe he misread his hand as Ah5h and it was an angle.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:02 AM   #9
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Re: Angle or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeccross View Post
Maybe he misread his hand as Ah5h and it was an angle.
Case reopened.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:42 AM   #10
SpewingIsMyMove
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Re: Angle or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeccross View Post
Maybe he misread his hand as Ah5h and it was an angle.
It is less common to mistake a spade for a heart
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:55 AM   #11
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Re: Angle or not?

Might be less common, but nothing else makes sense.
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Old 07-27-2017, 06:19 PM   #12
TardGuard
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Re: Angle or not?

Can't imagine this as an angle. Not this early and angling to put in 7000 in a 325 pot.

Is he drunk already? May be used to another casino and colour chips. That's an impressive angle if so considering the hand holding and money in the pot. This would have to be some reverse angle where he angles a player who will fold to an angle thinking he's beat.

I'm a crap player but how often would this person have to win to induce a fold for this play to be profitable. He'd have to successfully do this 25:1 or thereabouts.

Only other guess is misreading the hand. Ah5h maybe, a big maybe. Misread the A as a 4 and put Frenchy on a big A? I know I've misread 4 as an A a few times but not the other way around.
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:25 AM   #13
twelthraise
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Re: Angle or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
It is less common to mistake a spade for a heart
Maybe he's colorblind.
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