Hi guys, I just wanted to give you all a heads up about a scam I've run into in LV as well as FL.

The scam is pretty simple, you go to cash out your chips and the cashier counts them down and shorts you exactly $100. It's basically a freeroll for them. If you say nothing (perhaps you are too drunk or tired to notice) they have earned an extra $100, and if you mention it's short they pay you the correct amount. Of course it's impossible to confirm intent, plausible deniability, therefore they are freerolling. Even if they are only successful 1 out of 10 times they have an EV of $10 per attempt.

I felt the need to post a warning for all casino patrons because while I can't be 100% certain of ill intent, I had pretty blatant attempt recently. I went to cash out $424, 6 green chips, 54 red chips, and 4 blue chips. The cashier lined up the 2 20x stacks of red, placed 4 greens behind them, obscuring them from my view then broke the rest down, announced $324, counted down the cash in front of me. As soon as they were finished counting I said "it's short", they instantly reached back in the draw for another hundred without even recounting the chips.

I just wanted to give you all a warning, count your chips before getting to the cashier window.

Thanks for the warning. I think most reg players are very cautious at payout time. I had a case where the cashier had $20s mixed in with the $100s and I was talking to a bystander while the cash got laid out. I only move slightly to the right to recount the stacks when I found the error. I was told that if I had moved another 18" that they wouldn't have make it right since I would've changed cameras!

Although people will try anything, I really don't know what a cashier would gain by shorting you unless they feel that they can fool the camera somehow and get it into their pocket .. unless perhaps they knew their drawer was $100 short from a previous error and they would face an employment issue.

1) Count your chips before approaching the cashier, write it down or text yourself the number
2) Watch them count your chips and agree to the count before any money comes out
3) Watch them count your money .. ask them to re-count if necessary
4) Re-count your money while reaching inside the 'booth' to maintain the same camera
5) Tip the cashier for slowing down the line a bit while

GL

I think this is a "scam" in the same way that not speaking up when you see a blackjack dealer add the numbers wrong is a "scam."

Often people are bad at math. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to realize mistakes. Sometimes people don't speak up. Sometimes people rationalize it saying to themselves, "if they don't notice, why bother" or "this just balances the times I make an error in their favor."

I wouldn't assume it's a vast conspiracy of premeditated fraud.

But do count your chips when you're going to the cage.

This seems like it would be pretty dumb for a cashier to risk his job for $100. Also, the only real opportunity to try is with someone who is very drunk/sleepy and who has a lot of chips so he wouldn’t notice the missing $100. Also, if there’s another cashier sitting nearby he/she is going to overhear a customer say “you shorted me $100.” And the second time that happens, you’re screwed.


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Extracting the money from the patron is probably the most difficult part, finding a moment to pocket the overage seems like it would be super easy. They are standing in there all day and I'm sure they know all the camera angles which can easily be beat by sleight of hand.

Of course there are honest errors where that count is off by $1 or $5, where I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But the common thread I've seen on multiple occassions (more than I can attribute to coincidience) is the count being exactly $100 short, that makes me think it is much more likely to be a swindle. Skimming 100 out of 400 is brazen, though skimming 100 out of 1k or 2k is a lot more likely to go unnoticed.

That being said, I totally understand that only the big wigs make real money in the casino business, they don't pay their staff **** so I definitely pity them more than anything.

I mean, it's a net positive to have a story that might make people check their chip counts and cash outs more diligently, but I tend to think the motivation behind the shortage is less important. This is almost always just a mistake and not someone trying to swindle. I know the common elitist attitude toward these sorts of things on this forum sits on the "It's their job, how can they get it wrong?" side of the fence, but really, these are low paying positions and it's easy (not read as 'excusable') to make mistakes because of fatigue or just sheer laziness and being on autopilot. Effectively, it's irrelevant though. Count your money.

While its possible this is intentional I think you are way off base with your assumption that it is intentional.

First of all cashiers do not know all the camera angles ... cashiers aren;t generally invited into the surveillance room and the use of PTZ cameras means you never know where the focus is.

Second if they want to steal the more effective way is not to short a single customer $100 but to short many customers small inconsequential amounts throughout the day and keep track ... and then close to end of shift slip out the total amount..... customers are far ;ess likely to notice a $5 shortage then a $100 shortage....

And this is true of any cashier not just casino cashiers.

I can assure you this is incorrect.

How many times exactly have you seen this happen? It is very unlikely that there are cashiers constantly doing this. I wouldn't put it past them to try it once in awhile on bigger cashouts with an intoxicated patron or something, but they have to be straight stupid to think they will get away with walking out of the cage with more money in their pocket than they came in with. Then again, most thieves are not smart.

Cashiers make mistakes all the time. Most times it gets caught by the customer and corrected. Then there are those times it is in the customers favor and the customer remains silent. The cashier's bank comes up short and they get in trouble. Sometimes the customer is shorted and they don't know it. The cashier's bank comes up over and they still get in trouble. I can promise you one thing that is true is that more times their banks come up short than over and I am willing to bet that is because more often than not the customer knowingly took the surplus.

Do you as a regular customer know all the camera angles by virtue of being there every day?

Pretty sure the average poker player sees the inside of the surveillance area exactly as often as the average cashier.

Sure it is risky. Usually when this has happened they are the only cashier working in the vicinity, even if there is another employee near by they have little incentive to rat them out.

Exactly, either way it is prudent to double check you chip count and the cash received.

I would agree most errors are honest mistakes, and that's what makes the scam so clever and allows the potential scammer to operate with impunity.

I think there is a psychological basis for why scammers choose to skim precisely $100 off, if the first two digits are correct and then the 3rd digit is only off by 1, seems like it's more likely to trick people even if the counted down their stack prior to getting to the window.

I don't think nickel and diming would have a better EV for the scammer.

I think I've seen this set up (being shorted exactly $100) about a dozen times.

Pointless to level accusations when intent can't ever be proven, just wanted people to be aware of the possibility.

Just anecdotally, the majority of the times they check the cameras in the poker room for a ruling it comes back "inconclusive".

Regardless, people get fired all the time for stealing, usually they get away with it many times before they are eventually caught.

Maybe you've been shorted $5 a dozen times too, but just didn't notice.

The way chips are counted, you tend to lose "round" amounts of chips. So it's rare to get shorted $90 (because the cashier would have to miss 4 piles of $5s, one uneven) but more common to miss a stack of $5s in the rack. Loose $1s tend to be spread out at the end so it's rare to get shorted $3 or $8, but missing a loose $5 and getting $378 instead of $383 is more common.

I'm just trying to fathom being shorted exactly $100 twelve times and not telling anyone about it.

Are you allowed to break the chips down out of the racks first? I never just pass the rack over, I take the chips out of the rack and make easy to count stacks. The cashier will always then take the stacks and break them down as needed (ie stacks of 20 down to 4 stacks of 5, etc)

Depending on how long he's played that seems reasonable to me.

I wouldn't be surprised if I had kept track of every time I had been shorted $100 and it was a dozen, and that either the cashier or I had caught 11 of those.

If I kept track of every time I miscounted my cash bankroll and was $100 off, it would definitely be over a dozen.

Ooooh, they might lose their minimum wage job.

I side with OP on this one. The industry guys itt are going to side with the cashiers, what else would you expect? There have been times when I've been too tired or drunk to count the chips exactly in the rack, but the next day my wallet seemed light a bit. I've resolved to count the rack exactly before I had it over to the cashier but I still get too tired or drunk. I wouldn't be surprised if I've been shorted.

I have been overpaid before but sadly was sober and awake, so I gave it back.

This is news? Cashier makes a mistake/scams someone?

This has happened to me at peppermill in Reno but it was only $20. I didn't say anything i jist stared at her until manager of cage overhead and made the correct change. Not saying it was on purpose but I was aware and can see how drunk gamblers or tired gamblers could be taken advantage of.

The cameras in the cashier cage are there to protect their money. The cameras in the poker room also are there to protect THEIR money. When THEIR money comes up over/short in the poker room I would bet that it doesn't come back "inconclusive". The cameras in the poker room that are there as an overview will often come back inconclusive as they are not focused on anything in particular. Big difference. Their money is always very visible to the camera.

This makes no sense to me. If you were too tired/drunk to count your chips, then how can you know that you were shorted? How can you say "my wallet was light" when you don't know how much is supposed to be in there?

In order for this type of theft to work the cashier would need to follow up by taking a $100 bill and getting it out of the cage without anyone noticing. There are procedures and clothing restrictions in place to make this difficult to hide from the cameras and you'd better believe surveillance is watching for any deviation from the required hand clearing and such.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it's not easy and unlikely to go on for a long period of time unless the casino doesn't take their own money seriously.

You should be counting your chips ahead of time anyway to protect yourself from mistakes which definitely happen. I personally have been overpaid much more often than underpaid. It's probably just random chance.

They could just overpay an associate $100 and split it in the parking lot.

They do this at the Horse Shoe in Council Bluff, Iowa. I thought it happened to me,didn't say anything, didn't count chips as they were like 550-600 BB and I was absolutely exhausted playing for 9.5 hours. I asked a dealer friend about it they say cashiers do this all the time and have never gotten in trouble. Though they do it with $10 not $100.

Patrons are sized up if they look passive,dumb,tired,especially in a rush etc. My cashier took the chips away. Scum bags....remember your wins are revenues not profits their scams are profits. Still angry about it.

I used to scam people when I was younger over internet and you can scan your mind to look for gaps/holes/exploits like this. It is not worth the risk unless you know your manager/staff quite well as trusting. I would not do it with $100 as it is too significant. OP rest assured they get what is coming to them.

This would increase the number of times an incorrect payout was made and possibly noticed, would halve the rewards, and requires that you trust the other person not to do or say anything stupid.

Back in '04 I was at the Bellagio. Just arrived in LV. I was going to go sit at 15/30 LHE. So I was going to buy $600 in red. I gave the cashier $600 and she brought out 3 racks of red($1500) and started to slide them to me. I wasn't really thinking and was grabbing at them and she realized her mistake. I almost booked a $900 win without playing a hand.

The cameras that are there record everything, yes, but it doesn't mean there's a guy watching it 24/7 and when he sees a mistake he immediately calls the cage. That's not how it works. The cameras are only there to record, and if there's a discrepancy, surveillance is called to review the footage. If a customer is short and doesn't complain, nothing is checked.

I never leave the cashier without breaking down and counting my chips when I buy them, and before I hand them any racks, they're counted out to the dollar at an empty window. About a month ago I bought in for 1500 in green and when I broke them down, one of the stacks was short a quarter. This was after the clerk counted them in front of me before handing me the rack. It's not a common occurrence, but this is the only way we can protect ourselves from these bad apples that are defiantly out there.

A while ago I heard a rumor that one of the cage employees was arrested for theft in a casino I play in a lot, so it does happen (and this was one who got caught, I wonder how many more there are that haven't gotten caught yet).

https://patch.com/pennsylvania/bethl...10k-police-say