I never thought these type of things might be wrong. Realized they might be reading another thread.

Regardless if I'm in the hand or not (if matters, then let's hear both scenarios)

two examples:

I can see hidden green chips, others might not be able to - point it out?

Player goes to table cards, he might not see another player in the hand hasn't acted yet - point it out?

(I've been guilty of both and only just realize I might be guilty of OPTAH infraction.)

On the hidden green chips. If you think you see hidden chips try to bring it to the attention of the dealer. But understand there is a difference between you think a player may not see the chips and you think chips are hidden.

On the issue of a player prematurely tabling a hand. Absolutely let them know it's not the end of the hand. But again only when you are sure that's what is happening. Reminding them that there are players to act after them before they have even acted is out of line.

I would probably stay out of the chips side of it unless players are on opposite sides of the table and a count was asked for .. Which of course is not 'required' in cash but in the case of a hidden chip I might get involved.

I 'very often' put my hands out/up in an attempt to keep/block a player from acting due to a straddle not seen or similar to this post ... more so when multi-way for sure.

You are right to think that both of these are gray areas. I guess I'm a little more protective around other regs ... might be more cautious in a lesser traveled room. GL

So here is where it can get grey. It is right and correct, in my opinion, for any player to make sure that , procedurally, the hand is run correctly and that every player has the information they are entitled to.

The grey area is that the timing of when, and the manner in which this information is provided can be very influential.

I both the cases you mentioned, I would have no problem with a player acting in those situations. The hidden chipstack one I would be less apt to say anything, but would not find it out of line if someone did say something. If the other player asked for a view of the chips, and the other player moved them forward with the big chips still obscured, I would definitely say something. If I (or the dealer) had previously asked all players to put large chips in front or on top, and a player still had not done so, I definitely say something.

Stopping a player from acting out of turn is a trivial intervention. of course you stop them. For whatever reason, it seems easier to do early in the hand when there are multiple players affected, but it is equally valid to stop someone from acting out of turn on the showdown.

You should say something about the potentially (unless we are certain that another player can't see them) hidden chips BEFORE the hand starts. I'm on the fence re whether or not to say anything during the play of the hand.

As for someone not knowing there's another player and tabling their hand it usually happens so fast that I can't stop them and I'm kind of on the fence about that one, too.

Again, only interested if during a hand - and if I'm in the hand and if I'm not in the hand.

This thread got me thinking about it:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...twist-1384522/

Neither of those examples are OPTAH infractions, if that's what you are asking with your last sentence.

Regarding your specific examples, I agree with psandman and Spewing. One thing to consider about pointing out hidden chips is it should only ever faze a scumbag cheater, which is a good thing. Otherwise, nobody should be bothered by your attempt to make them aware, whether the chips are actually hidden or not.

Your second example is not a gray area if you are reasonably certain about what is happening. It's fairly common too.

On the hidden chips you should be careful. There is a difference between a hidden chips and a chip another player is overlooking. If it's really hidden I would say the correct thing to do is point out that there are hidden chips to the dealer, rather than talking to the players or mentioning their value.

Don't be so antisocial about it, it's totally fine to inform the player directly that their high denomination chips should be visible.

Approaching the dealer should be the second choice.

Pointing it out to another player should be as a last resort if the hiding player wants to be a dick about it.

Pointing it out during a hand is way more dangerous than pointing it out between hands.

If the player with the hidden chips went all in during the hand then I would say something like "are the green in play?" directed to the dealer.
Assuming it didn't come up during the hand, I'd say the exact same thing before the next hand is dealt. But I would direct my question to the player, not the dealer.

No problems in helping another player protect their hand while other players are still left to act.

Agreed on both counts. As not to be too confrontational or look like a rules nit, when it comes to hidden chips I'll sometimes wait until I'm in a hand with said player then ask them if they have any green as I'm deliberating my PF decision, even if I already know they do but I just can't clearly see how much they have.

IE: they raise, I ask if they have any green, they show them to me, I say thank you, then I either call or raise. Usually just asking the question will bring it to the attention of the dealer , and it keeps you from looking like an a-hole that's telling other players how they're chips should be stacked.

In the places I play most frequently, it's hard to tell the difference between greens and blacks when they're under other chips (usually reds). So I make a habit of asking other players to please put their green and black chips in front of or on top of their reds. Occasionally someone will dislike it, but too bad so sad. As albedoa said, "One thing to consider about pointing out hidden chips is it should only ever faze a scumbag cheater, which is a good thing. Otherwise, nobody should be bothered by your attempt to make them aware, whether the chips are actually hidden or not."

"Hey, I know you're not trying to hide them, but everyone needs to be able to see the big chips"

or maybe shortly after winning a big pot,

"I know you're not quite done stacking and you're still getting to it, but make sure those big ones are out front"


Very easy to state things in a non-confrontational manner. I know people are super defensive and 'mind your own business' at the table, but no one can snap at you if you're chill about it, and if they do, well, they're just miserable anyway.

If you behave like a normal person and act like you're doing it to help, most people will assume you're a normal person trying to help.

The times you really come off as an ******* are when you're transparently trying to gain an advantage. And just IME people are way more transparent than they think they are.

I'll liken it to telling someone their zipper is down. If you're a creepy pervert who's constantly looking at peoples' crotches and publicly pointing it out even when their zipper isn't very visible, yeah, a lot of people will take it the wrong way. If your neighbor comes back from the bathroom and you look him in the eye and say, "Hey man," and then whisper it in his ear, it's only going to anger a very select few.

I think it's fine. If someone is facing a bet and has a stack of $25 or $100 chips that are cut off from the other players line of site, I have always say "He has a stack of _____ behind his reds" and 9 time out of 10 when I have to say that, the player wasn't aware. Why let someone get away with hiding his larger chips?

When someone starts to table a hand prematurely and I'm not involved, I rather be quiet about it, because that's one of those cases where someone might hold a grudge, but it's fine to stop him from opening his hand while action is pending. just don't need some idiot staring me down the rest of the session.