Yes this is the same Ghost.

Just a disclaimer, at the present time I do not Mod for either Gripsed or Staples, though I did mod for Staples in the past.

I will reply to your posts one by one. But on this point, you may not have all the information.

Twitch does not profit from bots. In fact it costs them money. Advertisers pay for unique views, and have ways of determining how many are bots and subtracting those. That's why they police bots so much. The time and expense of detecting bots is not insignificant.

Also, I am not familiar with that specific streamer you mentioned. But there have been many cases of people suspended who were given their partnerships back. If a Twitch partner makes money for them, they have no reason not to give them a second chance. Now if the person continued to use viewbots and were never suspended or removed, then you would have a point.

There's no point really in going through specific stream examples. I could tell you many examples of people who lost their partnerships even though they claimed they had nothing to do with the bots. Because there is a never ending list of examples, and each case is different, I don't think that's a fruitful discussion.

Now here you have some interesting points. I do agree he is in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of situation. For a long time he didn't stream, and I don't know the details of his schedule. But I think the questions surrounding him have made people ask more regarding "when will he respond" rather than "when will he stream, and what kind of numbers will he get." That question that you kind of reference is a very good question. I guess we will see.

You are probably right about the "beyond a reasonable doubt" threshold being met for most people. I just haven't been satisfied enough to just label the guy just yet, but I recognize others will think differently.

How are advertisers able to identify bots on Twitch but Twitch cannot identify bots on Twitch? Surely you don't think that.

Plus, if advertisers subtract for bots, either way, Twitch just doesn't get advertising revenue for the bots...it doesn't really hurt them in that respect. Twitch still wouldn't be receiving revenue if the bots weren't there. On the other hand, if Twitch doesn't have an active system banning bots in place, both an undeserving streamer and Twitch will take in additional revenue.

Since it's difficult to identify which party is paying for the views, all Twitch has to do in order to fight the adverse effects of viewbotting is to not count the bots in the viewer totals. I seriously doubt that would happen - not because it isn't possible. And I'm not claiming Twitch has never banned anyone for viewbotting. But you claiming it doesn't benefit Twitch in a single way wouldn't be true.

Take StickyRice1 for example. He had a sub button and then bots were in his stream (not claiming he bought them) and he gained organic viewers and a larger subscriber base. After StickyRice1 was called out, the Reddit thread made him hugely more popular. Of course both of these (not saying Twitch had anything to do with the second) brought Twitch additional revenue.

Of course in theory, anybody can identify bots when they are there. Advertisers have more of a financial incentive to identify them, so they are on that. So Twitch has to invest in similar technology due to this. If people didn't bot, it would be a load off the company's shoulders.

And when you look at the whole, Twitch traffic is huge. The poker section is a pin drop compared to most of the other categories.

It still hurts the streamers who get pushed down by the guy who is botting. Jaime alluded to that. But those extra numbers don't add a whole lot to Twitch's bottom line, relative to the massive numbers they deal with.

As for the Stickyrice example, you must remember he also went on a massive cash game upswing to kick start his stream popularity. And then he had a massive downswing. Those things had nothing to do with botting, and definitely had a big impact on his stream. I never really heard him accused of botting. But if you are saying that "all publicity is good publicity" and therefore helps Twitch, maybe that's true. I just don't think it helps in the way you are kind of implying it does.

On your graph the y-axis is broken down into hours and Gripsed is in 30 minutes, your x-axis also is larger.

Here is a proportional graph comparing your viewers

I think you are wrong on StickyRice situation. Yes he got a following from poker community with his crazy poker sessions, but then went on to play CS:GO, which has massive streamers. As a result, he soon found he had tiny audiences for an extended period..any momentum he had from the poker stuff didn't cross over to CS:GO.

Then magically overnight he went from 10's of viewers to 1000's. People then looked at similar traffic charts discussed in this thread and they had the same suspicious patterns.

Somebody made a point to mention this and I think this is the stronger point. Though it has been done before, never before has there been such a wide account of chat botting. This goes far above View botting. I am now sad that I missed those streams. But I definitely would love to hear from anybody else who was in the chat and witnessed what appeared to be chat bots making repetitive posts.

I am sure your point is valid. At least the way you describe it. I have randomly watched a stream from time to time, but did not watch a lot once he stopped playing poker.

But clearly I was thinking of a different timeline. If you are telling me he was viewbotted while playing CS:GO, as I said I was not watching much at that point anyway. I said I didn't even know he was accused of viewbotting. I find it funny you say that me saying I didn't know about it means that I am "wrong." lol

There is a second ongoing and popular thread about this topic at /r/poker that I don't think is linked ITT. It was started by Staples. It has some meaningful discussion in it as well:

https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comme...sed_situation/

--
Kahn

What are you smoking? They add HUGE numbers to Twitch's bottom line. And have even further implications beyond the fact if you want to get down to it.

"And when you look at the whole, Twitch traffic is huge. The poker section is a pin drop compared to most of the other categories."

That's exactly my point...I don't really understand your statement. Do you think viewbotting only occurs in the Poker section of Twitch? All of the revenue in the StickyRice1 example I posted adds up between all of the streamers that do that, between all the games/sections of Twitch. You're telling me that doesn't add up? You're saying that if StickyRice1 never viewbotted, he would have the same number of views/subscribers as he as now?

When Twitch boasts viewership, do you think they subtract for bots?

I went into chat last week when he was doing 1500+ viewers and the chat was dead , i typed its awfully quiet in chat as a dig knowing its being view botted and instantly random subs which are part of his bots appeared with things like !chips !win !lfg / it's like wtf!!!! fthustla mentioned that in this thread earlier.

Pretty sure that if there's bots in there they are not subs. Like subs cost $4.99 a month and Gripsed would only get a portion of that. He might have one or two bots subbed for moderation tasks, like Nightbot or GripsedBot. But when subscribers are typing in chat I would feel pretty sure they are real humans.

I am interested in reports I have heard about the random comments in chat by people who are not subscribers and seemed to be making the same posts. Like repeatedly saying things like "Gripsed where you been?!?" with the same typos, etc. Did you see any of that in chat?

I believe Twitch as a company leaves a lot to be desired. I have found the lack of responsibility to be quite amazing and seriously doubt they care about the viewers 1 Iota and the streamers only for revenue and not much more. Twitch is not a poker site and probably has nothing or next to nothing in the way of security. Why should they what can we do.

ghost, i see you on alot of streams chat ( poker )
i am ip ban from twitch so i cant take part in the chat, but dude from what ive seen, its like you are ****ing standing up for this bald peanut head scamming piece of ****?
wtf is wrong with you man? the evidence is right in front of your ****ing face, and u continue to try and take the road around the fact.
CONSTANTLY in his chat, there are viewers who REPEAT stupid cringe worthy stuff, stuff a human WOULD not do, like commands constantly and just stupid crap, and at a 1.5k viewer ratio the chat WOULD NEVER be dead. and i mean ever, with that viewr count. if you think otherwise, then sorry man but your a ignorant idiot who clearly is clueless on the twitch communtiy ( i doubt this because i see u alot of the time )

its 100% view bots when you are seeing subs randomly come into chat after saying, chat is dead , just stop saying its not possible, and its not viewbotting. because he is doing it dude, and he is STELAING from other streamers, bumping him self up in the listing. self promoting like a ****ing scum bag.

Post above is unreadable.

Seriously considering subbing to gripsed now just because of the attitude of whatshisname that is saying he started the story over on reddit.

^^ Also grab a few of his books he links to them on the stream. They aren't that expensive and he did not copy and paste the contents.

This is absurd, sub bots are normal. Ellohime is a very popular streamer and a super cool guy, but he mentioned it himself, saying how he when someone subscribes, he has a few bots plaster emotes in the chat. And the funny thing is, you suggest that he may have one or 2 and you bring up Nightbot and gripsedbot, lol. A fat majority of em are bots. Why is it so hard to understand. Just ask yourself would a normal human be typing these things. One of 2 things, a bot or a die hard fan with 0 interpersonal communication skills. Think outside the box bruh.

That'll show me sir, I may just ease up in the future because I saw one minion beg to differ. I started ALL of this. Whether or not you like or hate the way I may reply to a few over on the reddit streets, should not overlook the fact of what I did to bring this out.

Lets not bull****, he's been doing this for years, no one was gonna say anything. Not even Jaime, he came out the woodwork after I brought this to light. I got the inkling, and got to work. That's why you have seen me fighting on my reddit, it's because I am super passionate about twitch poker and the people there.

I think I may deserve some credit.

What are you saying? No one else "LOL'd" at this?

You're trying to pitch gripsed books in a thread adamant on clowning the mans soul.

What are yon on? Share please.....

I know who you are over on reddit and I do appreciate your passion. Second to none.

I got the same issue however, texting angry emotions at people we find ridiculous. But minus the profanity, I am with you a 100%

Sarcasm

You know me, I know you. I've had respect for you for some time, so much so, I am pretty sure you're a mod on my channel. But what is with this nonsense.

You are speaking as if you just crawled your way out of the womb 6 weeks ago. Everything has to be on paper for you. Now I do appreciate you referencing one my posts bringing light to the chatter as much so the viewers.

But everything before, sounds like gripsed paid you. In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised.

If this were a trial, would we find him guilty? Are we supposed to accidently see his viewbot subscription on stream.

What other ways are there? Other than what we have done. With all due respect, I feel as if people that need concrete evidence for every accusation/speculation, and are incapable of having an opinion/thought based on already provided evidence on their own are the types of people that get walked on.

From now until forever. Again, just IMO.

Ouch, that hurts...Directly over my head. I feel silly, well played villain

You want credit, I get that, and I was kind of amused that so many people praised Jaime for this story when he didn't even break the it, but you don't need to beg for the credit.

You'll make absolutely no difference in the long run. If Gripsed stops streaming now 99.9% of twitch will have forgotten about him in a few months. The poker section will seemingly lumber on with a couple of big hitters, a couple of 300-400 view streams and the other nomarks padding the number of streams. I don't understand the motivation for some of them.

Obviously I wasn't serious about subbing to Gripsed.