I think much more people are going to be interested in this podcast series compared to my PLO

Will have it on ITunes this week for people to download and get new episodes

Might have to change title of the thread

havn't listened to any of the PLO ones but very much enjoyed the latest one with wcgrider, looking forward to hearing more of them

I really enjoyed this one - good job.

So no more PLO podcast?

+1

Awesome podcast with WCGRider, would happily listen to another 2 hours if available

The only thing I would say is that once you ask doug a question let him finish his answer before going on another path, maybe write down mid question your thoughts/questions so you don't forget them. Quite a few times I was like nooooo just let the man finish either way though was interesting to hear his take on poker/personal life etc.

+10000 (let the man finish (though I know you're not a pro broadcaster) and do 10 hr with him if you can)

People worried about no more PLO. Kill 2 birds with 1 spoon, do a PLO podcast with Doug.

NB. Ask him about Rui Cao match if you do (Sidenote: Being just a railbird, I remember gavz101 saying Rui was a great player. He couldn't get a hold of Rui's frequencies. Compare that to Doug, who'd barely played a hand of PLO and came out and said Rui was awful (Sidenote 2: What happened to gavz at High Stakes? (Sidenote 3: What happened to gavz full stop?)))

Oh yeah, what happened to the odd oddsen PLO podcast? If you ever do 1, bring up Doug's compliments to him

It was good, you both came across well. Sure it wasn't professional broadcasting but it couldn't be expected to be either.

Would defo like to hear an Oddsen cast also. That would be awesome. I guess it would be too much for him to go through PLO hands with you but just a chat like with Doug would be the balls.

What do I search for on iTunes to find podcasts?

fwiw I like both(the plo highstakes review series and the one with doug) podcasts! I think you should do them as you like it. As long as it's fun for you it will be nice to listen.

while i realise its horses for courses, i am struggling to get through the plo podcast (as much as i enjoy having it as a resource)

me and joey briefly spoke before the 1st podcast was released and we discussed our mutual appreciation of bart hansons podvast so would just like to reiterate that here. it aint even about doug and oddsen (though cant wait to hear from both), bart just chatted with a load of poker players of varying ability, why cant joey do this? he must have loads of skype buddies he talks poker with. just ask their permission and record a poker conversation bro. on multiple occasions

recent ep was great man, nice work

I lived with Joey for awhile when I played. Listening to these podcasts, years after living with him is just like sitting in the same room years ago discussing things jokingly. CJ is just like his podcast irl, funny, entertaining and honest.

The newest with Dougy is pretty good also. I like the honesty between the two and the fact that Joey can call Doug out and say he thinks a certain hand was played poorly by Doug is refreshing. The media/people want to stay neutral so often its sickening. I enjoy Joey & Dougs honesty about things, its not fluffed up, sugar-coated garble. I appreciate not being BS'd by, debatably, the best HUNL player in the world. I was around when Doug did the buy in challenge at 25nl and he is a true grinder and all around nice guy. I had some limited interaction with him in the micro FR forums way back when I first started playing and he was a guy I looked to for inspiration. I always appreciated his no BS up front attitude about things, which I know many have disliked him for in the past because he may have offended them.

Good stuff guys, enjoy the insight, entertainment and it's just nice to hear Americans talking about and keeping poker in the fore-front in the current climate.

Dash

Didn't Oddsen beat up on Isildur HU?

new joey podcast

thx nap

I posted this in the hs thread and will put it in here tooooo

I ended up streaming live the recording we did intending to edit it down but I lost the audio so this episode will be a replay of the stream. It was alot more doing it this way and having people listen in real time with it. I think Doug dropped alot of knowledge in this one. We talked about some recent results, wsop plans, dan bilzerian, and a bunch of other things

The recording is pretty damn long and I would have been able to edit out about 30-40 mins of it but for the people who like more, this is a good thing

Enjoy guys! Feedback appreciated as always, I think I did better having someone else to interact with the 2nd time around compared to the first

cool! the pizza arrived just as i found this one. i like the new mic btw

http://www.youtube.com/user/joeingram1

Although each episode is pretty independent of itself, here's the link to all of ChicagoJoey's videos. There are now two with WCGRider, one with Krmont and a few about interesting PLO hands.

I'm a huge fan of these podcasts and think they could be the next form of entertainment as far as poker is concerned.

Keep these coming, Joey!

shout-out for the shirt

Awesome stuff.. I think these are great for the growth of PLO and helping people realize it's an infinitely better game than NL for a lot of different reasons. Keep'm coming!

The Doug ones were great too.. highly entertaining.

Hey lefort, would it be possible for you to list the reasons (why PLO is a better game than NL)? (I can't see why you'd want them to be hidden)

I mean, I've never been adequately persuaded that PLO was in any way more interesting than NL. If you add it to the fact that (I'm from the UK) you can't walk into any casino and find a game of PLO. You have multiple varieties of NLHE (from CAP to deep ante cash games to multiple tournament types) that you could look to understand and master if you approached learning the game from an intellectual perspective.

They say PLO is more fun for fish but does that make it infinitely better?

Good questions.. I should have expanded on that comment when I made it..

Basically, if you're to look at the game of NLH and break it down into a comprehensive terrain or landscape of all the various different situations that call on understanding certain strategy concepts, the same type of terrain for PLO is exponentially larger. If NLH is a city, PLO is a large country.

Because of the added cards, the accumulation of all situations you encounter is far more diverse and complex, and thus its much more difficult to compartmentalize strategy. Thus, its much more difficult to master the game. Subsequently, we're all still very very bad at PLO. In contrast, the best NLH players are pretty darned good now after 10 years of evolution in a much smaller strategy landscape. IMO, if you play perfect PLO right now you will crush the best PLO players for a very very long time. The same can not be said for NLH.

When a game is much more difficult, this creates far more "room" for people to have edges against one another. I'm sure the best checkers player in the world doesn't have that much of an edge on the 10th best player. In chess, the edge of #1 v. #10 is more significant because it's a more complex game. Furthermore, the edge is pronounced even more in NLH, a more complex game than chess. And of course, it's even more exaggerated in PLO. Thus, there should be more incentive to play PLO and more incentive to learn how to play it well.

Also, the large amount of variance in PLO is like a massive cloud of protection for prolonged action from weaker players, a cloud that's farrrr smaller in NLH. When weaker players are able to run 100bi above expectation for the year, it keeps them in the game. Not all fish have certain inevitable deaths in the short-term like in NLH. The same can be said for weak regs. This cloud of variance also makes it far more difficult to decipher who the best players are amongst regs and this creates far more incentives for reg battles than in NLH where the totem pole tends to be very clear.

And lastly, I think the intangible skillsets of being a great poker player are even more important in PLO because of the reasons mentioned above. A weaker understanding of what "good play" is for PLO combined with enhanced variance means that everyone tends to be more psychologically fragile in PLO. It's incredible easy to chunk off 10 buyins playing PLO in 20 minutes, and completely lose confidence in your game. It's very easy to doubt a lot of your decisions and tilt, because you were never 100% sure about a lot of those decisions to begin with, given that the game is so complex. With so many big pots and big close decisions, not being sharp and playing your A game can cost you a ton of BBs. When you win big, the game is so easy. But when you lose, it's incredibly difficult to stick with your default strategies and remain disciplined when you were never all that sure about some of your strategy choices to begin with. PLO creates a far better battling atmosphere than NLH where it tends to be more of just a clash of strategies and somewhat predictable results.

In short, PLO remains more of a mystery than NLH, and that's precisely why everyone should be playing it.

theres a lot more closer equities in plo and so fish can get the monies in and usually win sometimes rather than playing vs nut peddling nits

theres a lot more gambling in plo like 2-4 way all ins otf a lot more than NL

fish don't sit at live tables to grind all night they come to gambles it up and enjoy themselves. plo allows this and they get there money in a lot of the time with a lot more % equity wise than NL

lol that what you jus said i wanted to say but obv in a shorter amount of words

but anyways yes

+1

Thanks for the long reply Lefort. That's the sort of answer I was hoping for (but wasnt expecting).

I'm going to go away and have a think about the point you've made in a bit more depth. So this is my intuitive response.

What I will say (and I've already made the point but it is applicable again) is that it is a big concern for me that PLO is not really 'taking off'. Obv that's not true within the 2p2 community, but is for the wide poker playing community (a couple of notches down from where Lefort plys his trade (so Mid Stakes live and online)).

How this affects me concerns where I should direct my resources. I'm not sure the greater complexity of PLO will in any way guarantee the continued growth of PLO. Where (from my position in the 2p2/poker playing community (at the bottom)) the top HU NL players, lets say sauce123 and WCG have clearly not equally 'mastered' the game, and there seem to be clear edges still in NL. High Stakes 6 max NL seems to run fairly regularly, and they say the legend durrrr couyldn't beat 10/20 online anymore (but that's another debate), which (I think) tells you something about the complexity of NLHE and the players who play it now.

PLO has tried to be pushed into the mainstream by poker media for a fairly long period of time, and for that period, from what I can see the majority of casual players prefer a 2 holecard game to 4.

Love joey. Love the podcast. Just dont know if the game's got legs for me in the big picture of poker.

In reply to sb77: yes, your points are probably right. But I'd have to see a breakdown of NL: PLO tables in cardrooms across the world (we could use eg. The Commerce, The Borgata (just to pick 2 in a country I dont live in)) to see how correct you are in your statements.