Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Twitch - Watch and Discuss Live Online Poker Watch streaming online poker play powered by TwitchTV right here on the 2+2 Forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-23-2015, 04:51 AM   #1
golf
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 120
Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

What do twitchers make per hour streaming poker, like how many viewers do you need to tune in to make 50$ per hour ?
golf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2015, 07:59 AM   #2
bhoylegend
self-banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Self-Perma banned.
Posts: 1,278
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Do you mean just from subs and donations (or donos as they tediously get called)?

Quite a few streamers will also get money from affiliate links for products like HEM/PT4. Even crappy products like Jivaro must pay a decent whack given how many streamers are content to pretend they use it when the cameras aren't rolling. Some also hawk it when using other products alongside because Jivaro doesn't hold the same stuff.
bhoylegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2015, 09:36 AM   #3
Grungehead
centurion
 
Grungehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Van down by the river
Posts: 157
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

I don't stream but a wild guess on my part is that you would probably have to be in the top 5% or so of streamers to make that type of hourly rate. My guess is that the majority of streamers are just making some side income while streaming what they would normally be doing anyway (poker/gaming). Only a small percentage actually build a "product" like JCarver has, and that's because his main focus is on entertaining his viewers and just happens to be doing that through playing poker.
Grungehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2015, 10:04 PM   #4
SNapON
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 85
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

In order for a streamer to make money out of twitch, he first needs to get a lot of traffic to his channel. He can make money from donations, affiliate programs. but those are random. After getting traffic to his channel, he can either send a letter to twitch support or wait for twitch to contact him, in order to get partnered and get a subscription button. When anyone subscribes, twitch earns 50% of the 5$ subscription and the streamer the same amount. So if he has 500 subs, he will make 1250$/month, besides the donations and the affiliate programs.
SNapON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 07:42 AM   #5
tdotrocket
banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

not many poker streamers make money from twitch. Even the ones that do do not have nearly the amount of subs as other regular gamers.
tdotrocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 12:31 PM   #6
flybine_03
old hand
 
flybine_03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,414
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

my guess is that even the top streamers are not even making 50$ an hour averaged over a year. Maybe jcarver and staples are close, but others are not even close to that.
flybine_03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2015, 04:12 AM   #7
LordRiverRat
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,513
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by flybine_03 View Post
my guess is that even the top streamers are not even making 50$ an hour averaged over a year. Maybe jcarver and staples are close, but others are not even close to that.
King Carver is definitely making more than fiddy an hour.
LordRiverRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2015, 09:10 PM   #8
a_r_K
journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 294
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by flybine_03 View Post
my guess is that even the top streamers are not even making 50$ an hour averaged over a year. Maybe jcarver and staples are close, but others are not even close to that.
LOL jcarver is making bank... pokerstars alone must be paying him a fortune!
a_r_K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 02:05 AM   #9
echOpoker
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California
Posts: 117
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNapON View Post
In order for a streamer to make money out of twitch, he first needs to get a lot of traffic to his channel. He can make money from donations, affiliate programs. but those are random. After getting traffic to his channel, he can either send a letter to twitch support or wait for twitch to contact him, in order to get partnered and get a subscription button. When anyone subscribes, twitch earns 50% of the 5$ subscription and the streamer the same amount. So if he has 500 subs, he will make 1250$/month, besides the donations and the affiliate programs.
50% rake for the $5 subs is also the baseline. The bigger and better you are, and the more subs you have, Twitch will give you a better deal.

I'm sure Twitch takes much less of the bigger streamers across the board. Also ads are a big deal too, and if the streamer has a great relationship with his/her community and viewers, they'll get more ad rev by convincing people to whitelist him/her with regards to advertising blocking software.
echOpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 11:48 PM   #10
jaimestaples
Just sick, man
 
jaimestaples's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,325
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Something I quickly figured out, and Jcarver seemed to think from day one, is that the $ you make streaming from viewers will likely be the smallest part. Don't get me wrong, subs, donations, ad revenue massively ads up and can really become awesome. Not to mention it's just nice to know that people find what you are doing valuable.

What's more powerful though (at least in poker so far) is having 10 million hours of content watched a year. Having attention! You can extrapolate how much that attention is worth in regular media (like TV), and figure out what companies will pay for product placement or sponsorship.

By the end of the year it is equivalent to a 60 minute episode on Primetime TV in the US. Product placement and commercial revenue should, in theory, be around the same for streaming one year as a whole block of the walking deads commercials. Of course streamers and companies need to figure out that this is what they are worth so the value for sponsors right now is really high. It's cheeper then it should be because their are no established standards like ratings for TV.

So without sponsorships, $50 an hour is a lot and I think that 5% number mentioned above is fair. With Sponsorships, it can be a lot more then that very quickly if streamers know their worth.

_______________________________

p.s. Hopefully this is helpful for some of the people just starting your stream up. It's tempting to jump on whatever offers come your way especially when they just start coming. Be very selective though! Your audience is what makes your stream valuable, it's your most powerful asset. Put them first > money always. Only sign deals if it ads to the value of the people watching.
jaimestaples is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 12:36 AM   #11
Dody
enthusiast
 
Dody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Puntsville
Posts: 89
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaimestaples View Post
Something I quickly figured out, and Jcarver seemed to think from day one, is that the $ you make streaming from viewers will likely be the smallest part. Don't get me wrong, subs, donations, ad revenue massively ads up and can really become awesome. Not to mention it's just nice to know that people find what you are doing valuable.

What's more powerful though (at least in poker so far) is having 10 million hours of content watched a year. Having attention! You can extrapolate how much that attention is worth in regular media (like TV), and figure out what companies will pay for product placement or sponsorship.

By the end of the year it is equivalent to a 60 minute episode on Primetime TV in the US. Product placement and commercial revenue should, in theory, be around the same for streaming one year as a whole block of the walking deads commercials. Of course streamers and companies need to figure out that this is what they are worth so the value for sponsors right now is really high. It's cheeper then it should be because their are no established standards like ratings for TV.

So without sponsorships, $50 an hour is a lot and I think that 5% number mentioned above is fair. With Sponsorships, it can be a lot more then that very quickly if streamers know their worth.

_______________________________

p.s. Hopefully this is helpful for some of the people just starting your stream up. It's tempting to jump on whatever offers come your way especially when they just start coming. Be very selective though! Your audience is what makes your stream valuable, it's your most powerful asset. Put them first > money always. Only sign deals if it ads to the value of the people watching.
Although I see what you are trying to say, I think your 'theory' comparing a primetime television show and a twitch stream is very misguided. Sure there may be an equivalent amount of viewers and view time, but equivalent amount of viewers DNE equivalent amount of value to a prospective marketer and it's, likely, not even close.

You fail to consider the value that each individual viewer represents to a company. In my opinion, people who sit at home and watch twitch (no offense, I do it myself) are likely to have a much lower disposable income than those that are watching primetime television, and therefore are less valuable--on average. This is why commercials on different television channels, that attract similar amount of viewers, do not cost the same amount. In addition to the number of eyeballs each commercial attracts, the demographics of the viewers are extremely important in determining the value of the commercial slots.

I will concede that it is obviously a very niche clientele, so for some gaming/gambling companies it does make sense to advertise on Twitch. But the same qualities that make it 'niche' also terribly constrain the potential companies that would market on twitch.

To think that your 10 million hours of views are as valuable as a primetime TV slot is very optimistic. Generally, I do agree that having a massive audience is likely undervalued by the community as a whole, but likely overvalued by you, if you think that your audience is as valuable as a primetime cable slot.
Dody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 08:17 AM   #12
jaimestaples
Just sick, man
 
jaimestaples's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,325
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

I agree with you. I don't think it is $ for $. I do think the targeting power is pretty huge though fwiw. The Twitch demo of largely 20-30 male will continue to get older and have more money in the future (just like Facebook has.)

I'm just trying to illuminate a way of thinking about Twitch broadcasts that people don't consider when approaching it from a business perspective. Sponsorship+Product Placement should almost always be > money from viewers. (Again drawing a parallel to FaceBook, they realized they they shouldn't sell directly to users, but their greatest asset was the attention people have on their site. They sell that attention. I think eventually this will be the way Twitch streams are structured.)
jaimestaples is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 08:40 AM   #13
NellyV
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 217
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaimestaples View Post
I agree with you. I don't think it is $ for $. I do think the targeting power is pretty huge though fwiw. The Twitch demo of largely 20-30 male will continue to get older and have more money in the future (just like Facebook has.)

I'm just trying to illuminate a way of thinking about Twitch broadcasts that people don't consider when approaching it from a business perspective. Sponsorship+Product Placement should almost always be > money from viewers. (Again drawing a parallel to FaceBook, they realized they they shouldn't sell directly to users, but their greatest asset was the attention people have on their site. They sell that attention. I think eventually this will be the way Twitch streams are structured.)
The twitch viewers tend to be the same people over and over again. You can see that from your subs. It's of less value because it's narrowcasting to a relatively small number of people.
NellyV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 09:44 AM   #14
TheAlmighty1ne
centurion
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 179
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by NellyV View Post
The twitch viewers tend to be the same people over and over again. You can see that from your subs. It's of less value because it's narrowcasting to a relatively small number of people.
I think you hit it right on the head. No way is 10 million views of content the same value as a 60 minute episode of The Walking Dead for example. The Walking Dead gets 10 million plus unique views in a 60 minute time span. I highly doubt on twitch over the span of the year that you are getting even close to 1 million unique viewers.
TheAlmighty1ne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 09:45 AM   #15
jaimestaples
Just sick, man
 
jaimestaples's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,325
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by NellyV View Post
The twitch viewers tend to be the same people over and over again. You can see that from your subs. It's of less value because it's narrowcasting to a relatively small number of people.
We have access to unique views information, as well as geo location. Again I'm not trying to sell you guys, just saying that the first question "how many subs do you think he has" is not the right question.
jaimestaples is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2015, 01:48 PM   #16
NellyV
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 217
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaimestaples View Post
We have access to unique views information, as well as geo location. Again I'm not trying to sell you guys, just saying that the first question "how many subs do you think he has" is not the right question.

And what is the number of unique views ?
NellyV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2015, 05:18 PM   #17
smmcoy
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 367
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by NellyV View Post
The twitch viewers tend to be the same people over and over again. You can see that from your subs. It's of less value because it's narrowcasting to a relatively small number of people.
Have you noticed that lots of people use the world "because" where it's inappropriate? Do you think there's some rule in the Milky Way that no one values high volume targeted advertising to a select group of people?
smmcoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2015, 05:21 PM   #18
smmcoy
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 367
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dody View Post
A
You fail to consider the value that each individual viewer represents to a company. In my opinion, people who sit at home and watch twitch (no offense, I do it myself) are likely to have a much lower disposable income than those that are watching primetime television
Lots of disposable income would be appropriate if people were advertising Mercedes or Cartier. Since I don't see those advertisements, maybe someone else is able to consider it besides you?

But you fail to consider that all companies are not equal. There's more than one company in the nation that targets people with low disposable incomes.

If you can't think of any, I'd be glad to help.
smmcoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2015, 07:49 PM   #19
NellyV
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 217
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by smmcoy View Post
Have you noticed that lots of people use the world "because" where it's inappropriate? Do you think there's some rule in the Milky Way that no one values high volume targeted advertising to a select group of people?
I'm not sure what in particular a group of Twitch poker railbirds are interested in buying. I think a video game Twitch audience is more valuable because you know that they are interested in video games and might buy new ones.
NellyV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2015, 08:54 PM   #20
Dody
enthusiast
 
Dody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Puntsville
Posts: 89
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by smmcoy View Post
Lots of disposable income would be appropriate if people were advertising Mercedes or Cartier. Since I don't see those advertisements, maybe someone else is able to consider it besides you?

But you fail to consider that all companies are not equal. There's more than one company in the nation that targets people with low disposable incomes.

If you can't think of any, I'd be glad to help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dody View Post
Although I see what you are trying to say, I think your 'theory' comparing a primetime television show and a twitch stream is very misguided. Sure there may be an equivalent amount of viewers and view time, but equivalent amount of viewers DNE equivalent amount of value to a prospective marketer and it's, likely, not even close.

You fail to consider the value that each individual viewer represents to a company. In my opinion, people who sit at home and watch twitch (no offense, I do it myself) are likely to have a much lower disposable income than those that are watching primetime television, and therefore are less valuable--on average. This is why commercials on different television channels, that attract similar amount of viewers, do not cost the same amount. In addition to the number of eyeballs each commercial attracts, the demographics of the viewers are extremely important in determining the value of the commercial slots.

I will concede that it is obviously a very niche clientele, so for some gaming/gambling companies it does make sense to advertise on Twitch. But the same qualities that make it 'niche' also terribly constrain the potential companies that would market on twitch.

To think that your 10 million hours of views are as valuable as a primetime TV slot is very optimistic. Generally, I do agree that having a massive audience is likely undervalued by the community as a whole, but likely overvalued by you, if you think that your audience is as valuable as a primetime cable slot.
Solid comprehension skills you have there mcoy.
Dody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2015, 12:44 PM   #21
Killingbird
veteran
 
Killingbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: @derektenbusch
Posts: 2,397
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by NellyV View Post
I'm not sure what in particular a group of Twitch poker railbirds are interested in buying. I think a video game Twitch audience is more valuable because you know that they are interested in video games and might buy new ones.
I know what they are interested in buying! Obviously can't say here though.
Killingbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 03:10 AM   #22
Maknae
stranger
 
Maknae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 7
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Streamers will mostly make their money through sponsors, subscribers, and donations. Ad revenue has dropped drastically over the past few years (the higher prevalence of AdBl*ck and Twitch simply paying less per CPM.)
Maknae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 04:21 AM   #23
IPlayNLHE
adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 889
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

I will tell you one thing, Poker streamers probably make less money off their viewers then any other type of streamers. Other streamers are raking in donations while most poker players are only making money off subs and ads. The only poker streamers making real money are the Pokerstars sponsored streams. Unless you are building a brand/close to a pokerstars sponsorship, streaming poker is counter productive and overall a waste of time.
IPlayNLHE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 06:08 AM   #24
Moldran
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 82
Re: Twitch grind.... Hourly rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by IPlayNLHE View Post
I will tell you one thing, Poker streamers probably make less money off their viewers then any other type of streamers. Other streamers are raking in donations while most poker players are only making money off subs and ads. The only poker streamers making real money are the Pokerstars sponsored streams. Unless you are building a brand/close to a pokerstars sponsorship, streaming poker is counter productive and overall a waste of time.
As a video game streamer, I can confirm this is 100 % true

I'm sure that every gamer streaming poker does it mostly because it is super fun to play (and stream to see chat reactions to certain things).

But it is true that when streaming poker, the stream grows a lot less and receives much less contributions/support than when streaming video games.
Moldran is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online