You are right they do look different I should have been more clear as to what I meant.

The rate of climb does not make a difference. Its the rate of climb in relation to previous climb, and future climb. So not that he gains 1500 viewers in an hour, lots of people do that. He could do that legitimately potentially, carver does every day and I get close around 1K. The thing that makes it not legitimate is the slow from 1500 per hour to 80 per hour in a few minutes. That is showing the true growth rate. Now of course there is diminishing returns with this. You will get your regulars that come by in the first hour so you are expected to grow a bit faster there then other hours pending deep runs. I think you agree with my thoughts here I'm just typing it out here for others as well.

In hindsite this graph is the most informative: http://www.twinge.tv/gripsed/streams/#/20182224576

The first 30 minutes show a growth of around 280 an hour. This is without a viewbot fairly clearly and what I imagine to be the true rate of growth early in a stream for Gripsed. After the initial 30 minutes, it drastically changes to +1200 in one hour (1K viewbot likely.) It then immediately changes back to a more reasonable growth rate (for his channel) of 100 an hour.

Also towards the end of the graph, there appears to be a viewbot glitch where it very quickly loses 800 viewers, and then regains 900 a few minutes later. This has potential to be a reporting error but looking at data from that day he is the only one who has that.

Jaime

I agree. That graph does look like the strongest evidence from the graphs you provided. Sunday March 13th shows the unmistakable evidence.



It doesn't really look like any of the other graphs I have seen though. Do we have more days like this with these strange humps?

I feel like I need to weigh in on this. I've gone back and read through this entire thread, but still need to visit the reddit threads.

I've been modding for Gripsed for over year now.

That being said, a little over a week ago, I noticed what appeared to be bots in the channel. I messaged Sparkes25 about it saying something to the effect of "It seems like there are viewers in chat who keep repeating the same identical questions over and over." To which he responded "Welcome to twitch Kappa" But after about 15 minutes or so he came back and agreed that something seemed fishy. After that, I immediately messaged Gripsed about it. He said he didn't know anything about it, and would look into it. So although Sparkes and I continued to gather information about the bots (ie most of them were created during late march - april of 2015, none were following any other streamers, the questions and comments were identical and Gripsed related etc.)

So I can personally all but confirm with near certainty that bots were in chat.

But to ghost's points, let's consider a few of things here. Gripsed puts out nearly all of his content for FREE on youtube. The few things that he does put a price tag on, they are extremely low compared to comparable products. He gives away percentage pieces of his action every Sunday for FREE. He gives away more money than any other poker streamer, including a free entry ($215) to the Sunday $10 milly this past Sunday. The winner of that ticket ended up cashing. Gripsed has appx. $200k in winnings already this year. His videos constantly focus on things like good mental state, health, and giving back to the community. He streams somewhat inconsistently, taking breaks for sometimes over a month at a time with little notice, including a 3-4 month break before and through the WSOP, which is coming up soon, during which time he loses almost all of his subs anyway.

Viewbotting is not something that is congruent to the person Evan has been in the poker community or to anything he does.

To Jaime's points about Evan donating and maybe overstepping lines, I say this. I see how you could take it that way. But you could also keep in mind the times he told everyone in his stream to go rail for you and other streamers this time last year when you were deep in a tournament. Evan has told people countless times during his streams to check out other people's streams who have something more interesting going on WHILE he is streaming. I think Evan just sees it more as a community and that all the streamers are there trying to promote each other. So while it could be viewed as scummy, it could also be viewed as an overly, maybe even naiive, sense of community.

And although I agree that viewbots are/were in the stream, I just personally don't see how they help him in any way meaningful and therefor don't believe he was behind it himself. I mean what, a few extra bucks from ad views? $2.50 a month from someone subbing who will assuredly unsub during one of his constant multi weeks - months hiatuses? On the back of winning $200k? That doesn't make any sense.

In a trial there has to be a motive, and if the motive you all are stating is money, then it just seems too far fetched.

So many posts in this thread have claimed his methods are scummy. I find this laughable. His methods for what? Getting more people to view his free videos and get better at poker? What an evil bastard! Getting more people into the twitch poker community and giving them free bankroll starters and free strategy guides? Let no good deed go unpunished I guess.

The twitch poker community also seems to not realize that a very large percentage of the viewers that show up in his stream come from youtube not even realizing that streaming poker is a thing. I know because I was one of them. I wonder how many views / follows / subs other poker streamers have gotten from people who came from youtube to twitch. So for the hundreds of dollars I've spent in subs and donations to people like PokerStaples and his crew, you have Gripsed to thank for that.

To sum up: Were there viewbots in his stream? Almost undoubtedly. Did Gripsed put them there himself? I can't come up with a single reason why he would. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. But even if I am, this man has done far more good for the poker community and for Twitch Poker than most of the people in this thread will understand.

To Jaime PokerStaples Staples specifically. I got nothing but love for you and the streamhouse. I respect that you stand up for what you believe in and aren't afraid to take it on with open dialogue and logical arguments. This is the only way to bring clarity and unity to the world. I'll likely join the reddit posts tomorrow as it is late and I have work in the morning.

As for FTHustler...see my incoming next post please.

So if you have admittedly "****ed up" someone's career because you felt like it in the past, you admittedly have issues with Gripsed, you continue to remind everyone that you are the one who broke the story on this issue, should it come out that this was done by someone in an attempt to affect Gripsed reputation, you are the first person I would be pointing the finger at as the culprit.

Shramo you have missed one big part of the Gripsed business model out of your lack of "motive" argument, affiliating for poker sites.

Getting a sign-up, dependent on what agreement you have with the poker site can be extremely valuable. The likes of PokerStrategy built a $15 million a year business on it. Now we aren't in the boom of poker anymore, but affiliating poker sites to new players (which are overwhelmingly the type of people who are being targetted on Twitch by a variety of people / businesses) is worth good money. Pokerstars have said they have had really good success with new players coming via Twitch and it is part of their business model going forward.

Now Gripsed is trying to do this via not just having traditional pop up ads or a boring link in the description below, rather via building a community both on Twitch and YouTube. Nothing wrong with that, very good idea. But in order to do that, you need eyeballs and so you need people to see your channel and also be reminded that offers are available.

If you think of rather than paying for a pop up somewhere, instead paying for exposure on twitch listings and having bots make sure people see the "offers", there is certainly motive to ensure you are a) in the top 2-3 streamers in the Poker section and b) for viewers to helpful ask questions about products.

Also, I wouldn't underplay the fact his products are only $5 here and there. It can soon adds up and it is consistent passive income, unlike binking a live MTT for $100k which makes up the bulk of the $200k you are talking about (and who knows if he is/was backed or sold pieces.). Also, again you are building a database of value customer info, of mostly new players which are the lifeblood of the game.

You also mentioned something that I have to say has raised my suspicion in all of this. It seems in order to get popular on twitch you have to stream consistently for hours every day. If you stop doing that viewership rapidly drops off. Even the pro streamers say this, that if they take even a week off, their viewership drops and they have to work hard to get it back.

There are loads of really really well known poker pros that keep dabbling at twitch, with 10k's of followers on twitter, name recognition, millions in tourney winnings etc, but they try to do twitch like a PA i.e turn up once or twice a month. None have succeeded taking that approach, they all end up with 100-200 viewers at most.

Now Gripsed as you say take time off, streams irregular patterns etc but within an hour of switching on his stream become the 2nd or 3rd most popular streamer in the poker section. Either that is an incredibly impressive and dedicated following or something isn't dodgy is going on.

His live score of 200k has zero to do with this and is nothing more than a red herring

The title of this thread needs changing from "Popular Poker Streamer" to "Nowhere near as popular as once thought Poker Streamer"...

Why hasn't Gripsed addressed the issue yet?

It don't matter how busy someone allegedly is if they were completely innocent you would think they would want to make it a top priority to respond right away.

The longer someone waits to respond in matters like this the worse it looks for them. For someone who thrives on a brand they are hoping continues to grow you would think Gripsed would have replied by now in hopes to stop the bleeding by trying to clear things up.

One thing to note is that the people who tend to donate on Kmart or Staples stream are usually the same people.. So it seems they get more for that reason, as well he was a local celebrity in Canada which helped him get many non-poker fans to watch.

Gripsed chat does seem rather quiet for when he is top of the Twitch views. However, this usually happens when other streamers go offline or he has a final table.
He also does a lot of giveaways and what not which attracts a lot of people who probably just wait to hear when they can win something.
He might use them, he might not, but reality is, it doesn't really affect much either. If his stream sucks people would stop watching it anyways. So reality is..eventually his would die out regardless. So it's a waiting period.

I was on his stream when he final tabled a tourney. Over 1500 viewers and i cant remember what it was that he was giving away (something like a book or course) but he wanted you to retweet his tweet. Something like 75 people actually did it, so he then started spamming other streamers with donations bragging about his current stream and final table. Not a lot of people seemed interested in his giveaway and he did mention it about 10 times. The problem with bots is they don't buy or sign up for anything, is all they are good for is ad revenue.

I noticed he does spam him books and whatnot a lot more than any other poker streamer out there. I mean he has to find his way to make money I get that. But again am I against him using viewing bots.. not really. But if he claims to be a top streamer and have masses of fans then I would not like that. But hey. It is what it is.

Think Evan said he would address the issue in his next stream?
When that is, is everyones guess.


Also crazy person, Never got a PM and have no interest in meeting you. The one time I did, it wouldn't surprise me if you have a weapon on you at all times.

The argument that he already had a huge following on youtube doesn't really mean much to me since if he is view botting twitch hes probably also doing it on youtube.

Another thing I'd like to point out...

Of the hundreds of free youtube training videos Gripsed has made, there is a video of how to use the 3rd party Twitch apps including MULTITWITCH.TV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRF_rbc9vF0

He was the first poker and only poker streamer I've ever heard even mention it in the year and a half or so I've been on Twitch, Dramatic Degen being the other who promotes it quite well, but he's only been streaming for about 4 months. And he did this 11 months ago! How many streamers' revenue were bolstered by the 3,000 people who watched that video became educated and started watching multiple streams at a time? I personally have up 3 or more streams at any given time because I mod for multiple people or just to help their numbers out.

So to the point of him "stealing" viewers by pushing his numbers higher with view/chat bots, or by going and promoting his stream in "scummy" ways in other PokerStaples' stream or even the smaller guys, I think it is a narrow minded view of a bigger picture.

Yet again, Evan took the time to educate the Twitch community to help viewers get a full experience and watch multiple streamers. This again INCREASES the revenue of other Poker streamers including the smaller streams. Education and building the community has always been his focus. Educating poker players of all levels, educating Twitch viewers new and old, and here so many people are ready to burn him at the stake and break ties with him and turn their backs on him for his years of helping the community over something that hasn't even been proven to be his own doing yet.

Open your eyes to the bigger picture.

Agree on this and your previous posts. GRIPSED has been one of the most positive streamers/twitch/poker advocate in the past 2-3 years. When picking up the game, I was searching through various websites online, and happened to came upon his YouTube channel. I watched all the videos, and they were long, educational, and his library grew extensively over the following years. I became an avid follower in 2011. Unfortunately being in the military, my unit got deployed in 2012. Luckily since Evan, posted everything on YouTube his videos was easily accessible to view and study-all for FREE while I was overseas during my off-duty hours. When I returned home, I wanted to give my newfound skills a shot. I decided to go to my local casino and register for a MTT. I didn't even bother to look at what tourney to buy into, but I got into a step up satellite. I ended up winning a seat to the final tourney for a shot at a main event seat. I registered for the final satellite a couple days later, and placed top 2 to receive a seat into a $3500 main event seat the following week. Besides the two satellites, this was my first LIVE tournament ever. I was a little nervous, but once I sat down I felt really comfortable. My very first day I lucked out and got seated at the feature table for almost the entire day (which meant I my table didn't have to break down much). I was sitting down with poker pros and didn't even realized it. A few hours into the day, my friend, who was watching the stream, texted me that one of those pros was seated across from me. That person, ended up being Todd Terry. Along the way I discovered there was numerous pros, and other well known players that participated in the tournament (at the time, unbeknownst to me) including: Brian Hastings, BdBeatSlayer, Stealthmunk, Will Failla. (link for list of players that made it past day 1: http://www.foxwoodspoker.com/search?...12:08:00-04:00)

Anyway to keep the story short. I made it to the final day, day 4 to the final table with guys like the reigning PCA champion. It was my first live tourney experience, and it was 4 whole days of 12 hours of poker each day (more like 10 hrs a day with breaks). I ended up 8th for over 20k. I had satellited in for $60, so I had a massive return for my first live score. For the next year or so, I grinded the local casino in cash game/daily mtt's for a living to support myself and my then fiance (now my wife) through poker. I never would have gone over a year without any income, if it wasn't for poker. It paid bills, and all travelling expenses I had, as well as expenses when I went on vacations. I owe the edge I had, to the training from the FREE videos of GRIPSED. I even got a WSOP Circuit ring along the way.

Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your views), I found a decent and stable job, so I don't play poker as often as I used to now. Instead of being at the casino for many days of the weeks, I only go once or twice a month, sometimes every two months.

I'm sure anyone who follow GRIPSED knows the story of Charlie "Epiphany77" Carrel. I'm no Charlie, but I do owe GRIPSED a lot, because his site/YT channel got me through a very tough time in my life.

As far as this incident is concerned, I'm trying to look at it as unbiased as I can. So I've read the replies and responses here, as well as quite a few on the reddit thread. I do hope we get a real reply sometime soon. I do find it funny how some people think GRIPSED is a nobody. I admit for twitch streamers, he's not as known as a Jcarver, but he's been active in the online poker community for a long time now. His YT has over 50k subscribers (which is actually more than JCarver). I'm sure there are others that has stories like mine, that hasn't been posted. So I'm sure there are plenty of "gripsters," awaiting for an answer.

The irony here is giving me goosebumps

And that doesn't ring any warning bells at all? 2x as many subscribers as JCarver a man who gets 20k people watching his twitch and has a massive social media following, promoted by Stars etc etc etc.

The real losers here are the people who watched his streams, (and couldn't figure out why so many people were watching) and the advertisers who had the ad dollars they invested stolen and other streamers who were cheated out of the ad revenue they were due.

You are literally talking about pennies. Dollars at most.

....while we are at it....

Sparkes25 was a mod even before I joined. For him to say that he was the first one to notice this, when I clearly brought it to his attention first, and then to turn his back on Evan and Team Gripsed without even hearing a full response is an abomination in my opinion.

And just so you all are clear, this is Fthustla420: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKXbh0SOREU the guy who started this post and the one leading this witch hunt. So you are believing him, or you are believing in the guy who has put in countless hours, money, and energy in promoting Twitch and Poker almost all for free.

Hope you all are backing the right person.

I think most decent people are waiting for a response. Evan is aware of these allegations and said he will respond, but so far nothing other than some silly tweets. Having people with 2-3 posts coming in derailing the thread with smears of other people doesn't forward the argument.

gripsed is that the one with cancer?

Here is GRIPSED's YouTube Response. Just a note he will also be live tomorrow afternoon for his usual FMF stream on twitch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePdo...ure=youtu.be&a