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Old 10-13-2015, 05:43 PM   #23001
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Druid would be absolute garbage if they nerfed combo. The class is so reliant on it.
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:47 PM   #23002
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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Originally Posted by Kirbynator View Post
this one doesnt kill warsong or frothing (altho warsong is utter **** at least it has different possibilities yet, who knows)
How can you say warsong isn't dead? As someone said above, it's worse than raid leader now.
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:49 PM   #23003
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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Same could be said about a perfect Hunter, Mech Mage, Druid open.
Not really. The last Tavern Brawl was literally "you have a perfect curve". Secret pally shat all over those other decks. I had over 75% win rate with it.
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:50 PM   #23004
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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OTKing isn't a problem in my view with the patron deck. I can OTK with Shaman and Priest usually far more efficiently.
otk means with nothing on board you kill the other guy from near full hp...
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:51 PM   #23005
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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Druid would be absolute garbage if they nerfed combo. The class is so reliant on it.
its actually not

ramp druid didnt run combo for a long time.
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:55 PM   #23006
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

something tells me if they nerfed combo, you wouldn't see everyone rush to bring ramp druid decks to tournaments
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:56 PM   #23007
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Yes Shaman can OTK if you can get the exact right cards and pull Mally--problem is it's really tough to do with only 1 in the deck. The deck is basically horse**** other than the times you pull the perfect combo. It has spotty removal and can get easily run over.

Priest can't really OTK unless you can a board unless you are talking about the Velen one which is again nowhere near as consistent as Patron. The issue is double Frothing you didn't even need a board.

The reason why Patron >>> Mally Shaman is b/c it has multiple ways to win, while Maly Shaman has one, same with the OTK Priest.

Having 2 ridiculous combos is what made Patron so hard to play against. It beats both aggro with patrons/warsong and control with frothing/warsong. Most decks have a ton of trouble doing both.
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:56 PM   #23008
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

i agree if you take everything out of context and dont take into account all the other nerfs mentionned ramp druid isnt the best deck in the game right now

kappa
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:57 PM   #23009
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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Originally Posted by WildBobAA View Post
something tells me if they nerfed combo, you wouldn't see everyone rush to bring ramp druid decks to tournaments
the problem is no matter what you do is there is always going to be a top deck. you could nerf every deck and make OTK Mally the #1 deck and people would complain. people are going to complain regardless about the top decks.
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:58 PM   #23010
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

I wasn't talking about all the other nerfs mentioned. It just seems like some people think combo should be nerfed by the same logic that patron is being nerfed.
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Old 10-13-2015, 05:59 PM   #23011
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

druid combo is pretty out of control tbh but its not as lame.

And yes druid would be underpowered right now if u just straight up removed combo from the game.

A small nerf? probably not
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:06 PM   #23012
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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Same could be said about a perfect Hunter, Mech Mage, Druid open.
See brawl, tavern to see that this simply is not true
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:09 PM   #23013
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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Originally Posted by Kirbynator View Post
otk means with nothing on board you kill the other guy from near full hp...
I've dropped players with one minion. Double rock biter. Windfury and buttlust. With shaman. There's also the times I can fill the boards with really ****ty totems and things like haunted creepers and then pop off 21 dmg just from buttlust alone. I have also dropped players with Deathlords and Innerfire by turn 7.

None of those things required much thought other than I hope the right cards come to me before I die. With Frothing OTKs there's planning and thought. Double combo doesn't hold much thought. My issue is with a lot of players who cried about Patron, is that they don't want a game where thinking is a part of it. I believe that because a) a lot of bad players didn't play around frothing combos b) the decks Patron farmed are usually the decks the least effort is needed to be played.

They could have done something easier to appease people who don't like OTKs. Make arena free and just restructure rewards.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:10 PM   #23014
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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well the longest standing problem is the warlock hero power, and what comes with it is actually big game hunter being NEEDED to keep handlock in check.

What in turn this does is that big game hunter is overpowered and a ton of fun cards with 7+ attack are super underpowered and irrelevant.

So find a way to nerf BGH while also nerfing handlock because of that change. (perhaps a slight nerf to both types of giants (7/7 instead of 8/8s ?), but its hard to say in 30 seconds without analyzing deeper)

Then nerf dr6

Then nerf dr7

Then nerf Combo druid, this one im not sure how to start cause it just got better and better by a decent amount every expansion, but there are ways for sure if we think about it. Like someone mentionned before perhaps the simplest answer is a tweak to savage roar, which makes it kingpin as anti control without being all in. (this card could get the unleash the hounds treatment and just see a total revamp of the card, making it often good without being a complete blowout card if you have it with combo)

In the same token, if you nerf all of this then control warrior will be OP. And this is a good base to start.

With control warrior OP, control paladin ****s on control warrior so therefore control pally could be topdog in this particular matchup (it really really crush it for those unaware cause we cant see true control pally for almost 2 years).

In turn, very greedy priests (ysera, paletress, maybe even a mindcontrol, etc) and combo shamans/control shamans (different possibilities of decks like valiant totems, bloodlust with deathrattles, or malygos) can then sprout from this and battle with them.

From this super slow meta are reborn the zoo, mech mage, mech shaman and face or midrange hunter to in turn keep their ultra greedyness in check and win a fair share of games against them because of how hard it is to mulligan early game once the meta is very slow.


Tempomage will find its niche between all of this, by being decent against everything but not crushing any. In a different wayfreeze mage will still get rekt by control warrior but be very good against most of the rest. Always been a very polarizing deck but thats fine.

Secret/midrange pally will survive a challenger nerf, not to be worried about. Just slightly weaker (pretty sure its #1 now with patron gone). Personally I'd just make challenger have a lot less than 6 hp. Something like 3 or 4 would still make it good for the secrets but a lot less threatening if you cant clear it with your board (or you can clear it with one frostbolt/swipe and then deal with stuff that pops back up, etc). At the moment, a second mysterious challenger that only pops up 1 secret is still huge, which is pretty dumb. Nerf the stats (pally secrets are **** enough that you can keep the effect intact imo)
Great post
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:13 PM   #23015
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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Originally Posted by Kirbynator View Post
druid combo is pretty out of control tbh but its not as lame.

And yes druid would be underpowered right now if u just straight up removed combo from the game.

A small nerf? probably not
Druid combo is infinitely more lame than frothing OTKs.

The math is way easier to calculate for lethal. There's no sort of ordering of the board. You just drop FoN + Roar or double Roar and voila "I haz lethal!"
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:14 PM   #23016
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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its actually not

ramp druid didnt run combo for a long time.
I run ramp no combo from time to time. Still quite good. Not sure why its not played a lot.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:14 PM   #23017
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
I've dropped players with one minion. Double rock biter. Windfury and buttlust. With shaman. There's also the times I can fill the boards with really ****ty totems and things like haunted creepers and then pop off 21 dmg just from buttlust alone. I have also dropped players with Deathlords and Innerfire by turn 7.

None of those things required much thought other than I hope the right cards come to me before I die. With Frothing OTKs there's planning and thought. Double combo doesn't hold much thought. My issue is with a lot of players who cried about Patron, is that they don't want a game where thinking is a part of it. I believe that because a) a lot of bad players didn't play around frothing combos b) the decks Patron farmed are usually the decks the least effort is needed to be played.

They could have done something easier to appease people who don't like OTKs. Make arena free and just restructure rewards.
Those aren't really OTK though. That's having a board and then using bloodlust. If you could on one turn build up a board and then buff all your creatures and there isn't anything your opponent could do that's a problem. Again I guess you are killing them in one turn but you have a setup. The fact that you can react to the setup is the biggest thing. With frothing, you can prepare but there's sometimes little you can do.

And the tavern brawl thing someone mentioned, there was hardly any removal played by both sides so of course if your opponent has no removal you are going to get crushed by secret pally.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:14 PM   #23018
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

id argue math being easier to calculate tends to help druid's opponents more than them

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I run ramp no combo from time to time. Still quite good. Not sure why its not played a lot.
being underdog to both types of warriors instead of being favored would be my guess

Its better against secret pally tho (!)

Last edited by Kirbynator; 10-13-2015 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:19 PM   #23019
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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Those aren't really OTK though. That's having a board and then using bloodlust. If you could on one turn build up a board and then buff all your creatures and there isn't anything your opponent could do that's a problem. Again I guess you are killing them in one turn but you have a setup. The fact that you can react to the setup is the biggest thing. With frothing, you can prepare but there's sometimes little you can do.

And the tavern brawl thing someone mentioned, there was hardly any removal played by both sides so of course if your opponent has no removal you are going to get crushed by secret pally.
A lot of time Frothing OTKs aren't OTKs by your metric than.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:27 PM   #23020
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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id argue math being easier to calculate tends to help druid's opponents more than them
You could argue that, but you would be wrong imo and here is why...

1) Druid combo you can memorize the base damage of the combo and just add additional numbers quickly.
2) Frothing OTKs you have to plan out during the opponents turn. Even then you often have to adjust during your turn to max the damage. And if your opponent is playing fast it makes you have to do the combo faster since it takes rope burnage just to pull off correctly most of the time.

My point isn't really to argue about nerfing or whose combo is mindless. Rather my point is OTKs are part of the game, targeting one deck because it is strong isn't really solving OTKs. Just appeasing the masses.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:29 PM   #23021
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

I would also point out... I much rather get OTK'd by a warrior than spend fifty minutes in a control game. I was playing a really low budget fatigue mage a few weeks ago.. and my god I didn't think the entire game besides deciding which removal or freeze is the most efficient on this turn.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:32 PM   #23022
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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I run ramp no combo from time to time. Still quite good. Not sure why its not played a lot.
I want this list. I wanna try.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:41 PM   #23023
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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I want this list. I wanna try.
It's a fun list...I know it runs Barron Geddon too
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:59 PM   #23024
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

lol, you guys as a group are hillarious.

yesterday: "Whaaaaa patron so op! Blizzard, plz nerf patron kthxbai!"
today: "Omfg, worst nerf evaaa!!!!"

Then there's the chorus of whining about how this deck and that deck is more annoying than patron.

To the chronic complainers: Face it... no matter what blizzard will do, you'll never be happy. The problem isn't blizzard, the problem is you.
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Old 10-13-2015, 07:01 PM   #23025
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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lol, you guys as a group are hillarious.

yesterday: "Whaaaaa patron so op! Blizzard, plz nerf patron kthxbai!"
today: "Omfg, worst nerf evaaa!!!!"


Then there's the chorus of whining about how this deck and that deck is more annoying than patron.

To the chronic complainers: Face it... no matter what blizzard will do, you'll never be happy. The problem isn't blizzard, the problem is you.
hint: theyre not the same people
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