Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Notices

Hearthstone Join... or die. Or both?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-08-2020, 06:26 PM   #47976
DirDirDirty
Pooh-Bah
 
DirDirDirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Clowning fools
Posts: 3,573
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Least favorite decks to play against so far for me are pretty easily Guardians Druid and Spell OTK Mage. Druid for obvious reasons. Spell mage is so brutal, freeze, freeze, freeze, then sit through two and a half minutes of arcane missile animations just to see if they managed to pull off their 17 card otk.
DirDirDirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 12:38 AM   #47977
master3004
Revisionist Historian
 
master3004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Obstruct Everything
Posts: 55,187
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Oh god, I havent run into the second one yet.

That sounds awful
master3004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 06:31 AM   #47978
Bloobird
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Bloobird's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 23,325
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Guardians Druid is ludicrously OP and incredibly unfun to play against, great job Blizzard. Reckon it needs 2-3 nerfs, take that 5/4 stealth down to 'draw one', probably increase Guardian Animals itself by one mana and just completely get rid of new innervate, it's as hot aids as everyone expected.
Bloobird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 11:18 AM   #47979
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,214
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

The xpac is actually pretty great - there's so many new decks. I think a lot of the pre-xpac decks are still good too, we're just not seeing them atm b/c ppl want to experiment.

Things I like:

1. Rogue actually playing like rogue instead of galakrond. Draw cards, big weapons, smash face, tempo tempo tempo.

2. The return of paladin. It's a fair deck that has counters and doesn't generate random garbage. It feels good to have it back.

3. Tempo mage. I have always loved this deck, glad to see it make a comeback.

Things I dont like:

1. Everything about Druid. As someone said above, needs heavy nerfs. I don't mind the 5/4 stealth, I think it's kinda-fine. But guardian animals is legit worth 12+ mana for 7. I'd push it to 9, or lose the rush. My only real problem with twilight runner is that stealth isn't a druid thing, they really shouldn't have access to it. It's a rogue card. New innervate needs to go, the original was nerfed for a reason. Kael'thas should be nuked from orbit, it's like Pocket Galaxy - if it's playable, it's broken. Just change the card completely, or push it to 11 mana.

2. The new priest legendary. Just so unfun. I hate that they doubled down on priest as a class of steal your ****. It's a crap identity that everyone hates playing against.

3. Voracious reader. Just enables the most degenerate decks that make games decided by turn 3 at the latest. Card draw on a stick should not be available for every class.

4. The OTK mage. I really like mozaki as a card. I think it could be a nice top end to a tempo deck to help it pump out a little more burn damage, or just be a threat in the midgame. But the OTK mozaki combo is just more solitaire gameplay that is boring and un-fun to play against. Fortunately, I think the deck is bad in a ladder format, so I don't think nerfs are coming.

I think the goal with the incoming round of nerfs should be to try and eliminate (as much as possible) hearthstone games where one side never had a chance. Basically, I'm looking mostly at Druid.
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 12:23 PM   #47980
DirDirDirty
Pooh-Bah
 
DirDirDirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Clowning fools
Posts: 3,573
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

I agree with pretty much all of this, especially the stuff you like. Tempo Rogue is my favorite deck so far, and I'm messing around with Tempo Mage now and enjoying while having little idea of what I'm doing as far as mulligan, powerful combos etc.

As far as what you dislike, agree with most points but #2 I haven't played vs her much, and played with her pretty sparingly but haven't had problems with that card yet. Also don't feel like #3 voracious reader is super bad but could definitely see changing my mind down the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D104 View Post
The xpac is actually pretty great - there's so many new decks. I think a lot of the pre-xpac decks are still good too, we're just not seeing them atm b/c ppl want to experiment.

Things I like:

1. Rogue actually playing like rogue instead of galakrond. Draw cards, big weapons, smash face, tempo tempo tempo.

2. The return of paladin. It's a fair deck that has counters and doesn't generate random garbage. It feels good to have it back.

3. Tempo mage. I have always loved this deck, glad to see it make a comeback.

Things I dont like:

1. Everything about Druid. As someone said above, needs heavy nerfs. I don't mind the 5/4 stealth, I think it's kinda-fine. But guardian animals is legit worth 12+ mana for 7. I'd push it to 9, or lose the rush. My only real problem with twilight runner is that stealth isn't a druid thing, they really shouldn't have access to it. It's a rogue card. New innervate needs to go, the original was nerfed for a reason. Kael'thas should be nuked from orbit, it's like Pocket Galaxy - if it's playable, it's broken. Just change the card completely, or push it to 11 mana.

2. The new priest legendary. Just so unfun. I hate that they doubled down on priest as a class of steal your ****. It's a crap identity that everyone hates playing against.

3. Voracious reader. Just enables the most degenerate decks that make games decided by turn 3 at the latest. Card draw on a stick should not be available for every class.

4. The OTK mage. I really like mozaki as a card. I think it could be a nice top end to a tempo deck to help it pump out a little more burn damage, or just be a threat in the midgame. But the OTK mozaki combo is just more solitaire gameplay that is boring and un-fun to play against. Fortunately, I think the deck is bad in a ladder format, so I don't think nerfs are coming.

I think the goal with the incoming round of nerfs should be to try and eliminate (as much as possible) hearthstone games where one side never had a chance. Basically, I'm looking mostly at Druid.
DirDirDirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 01:35 PM   #47981
jmakin
DoorDash Balla
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 29,413
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

You guys are complaining about druid but paladin has the 56% winrate on hsreplay.
jmakin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 01:54 PM   #47982
DirDirDirty
Pooh-Bah
 
DirDirDirty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Clowning fools
Posts: 3,573
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
You guys are complaining about druid but paladin has the 56% winrate on hsreplay.
For me personally, game experience plays a large role. Losing to druid FEELS so much worse than paladin. I feel like I have a chance vs pally if I play well, or if I adjust some tech choices. There are games against druid that are just "bottom right, buddy".

I also think pally winrate is somewhat inflated by it countering druid, the most played deck currently, fairly well.

I could certainly be wrong here, and I think both will see some nerfs.
DirDirDirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 02:29 PM   #47983
jmakin
DoorDash Balla
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 29,413
Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Highlander mage beats guardian druid and libram paladin at 60/40. I donít think thereís a problem with druid, because it has clear counters that do well against the rest of the meta. at least nothing like the problem we saw with demon hunter. Mage Might be worth checking out. I call it wallet mage though :/
jmakin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 02:33 PM   #47984
Bloobird
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Bloobird's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 23,325
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

yeah druid is just super unfun to lose against

paladin may be strong but at least it's an interactive deck where they don't just pull some bullshit on turn 3 that leaves you with no chance to win
Bloobird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 02:34 PM   #47985
jmakin
DoorDash Balla
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 29,413
Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Paladin has a 5 mana +8/8 to a minion........

Can create multiple huge bodies midgame (like turn 5-6) and if you dont have an answer you just lose on the spot.
jmakin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 02:37 PM   #47986
Bloobird
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Bloobird's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 23,325
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

and yet druid is still more obnoxious
Bloobird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 02:39 PM   #47987
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,214
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirDirDirty View Post
For me personally, game experience plays a large role. Losing to druid FEELS so much worse than paladin. I feel like I have a chance vs pally if I play well, or if I adjust some tech choices. There are games against druid that are just "bottom right, buddy".

I also think pally winrate is somewhat inflated by it countering druid, the most played deck currently, fairly well.
agree with all this
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 02:53 PM   #47988
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,214
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

I agree that the +8/8 spell is undercosted - even with the no face restriction, it seems just a bit too much value for 5 mana. Could maybe see a nerf to that in the future. Looking at the stats tho, it's near the bottom in drawn WR, but #1 in played WR - suggesting that it's only good b/c paladin is winning the board off of hand of adal and lightforged zealot.

All that said, paladin reminds me of when combo priest was #1 on ladder a couple of metas ago.

I didn't have a problem with priest then I dont have a problem with paladin now - they are both decks that (1) don't deal huge damage from hand (2) don't generate random stuff (3) have to win board to be effective and (4) are vulnerable to hard removal and silence effects.

Decks like that are good for the meta imo and can be countered.
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 02:59 PM   #47989
jmakin
DoorDash Balla
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 29,413
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

All four of those things you listed also apply to guardian druid
jmakin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 03:19 PM   #47990
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,214
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

2 & 4 certainly dont imo

should have added don't cheat a metric ****ton of mana on turn 4, which is the problem everyone has w/ druid
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 04:24 PM   #47991
D104
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
D104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In a better place.
Posts: 18,214
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

edit: forgot to mention the paladin legendary that cheats a spell out - that card could use a nerf, probably in the form of a huge stat reduction

no qualms w/ ppl upset at that one, mana cheating always problem #1
D104 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 10:47 PM   #47992
prizminferno
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
prizminferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,610
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Paladin is toxic
prizminferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 11:25 PM   #47993
angel zera
adept
 
angel zera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 835
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

So I tried Pure Paladin and...I'm not even going to reveal my winrate, but it was very, very low. This is presumably both b/c of me playing the deck badly, and running badly with curves/draws.

The deck loses HARD if you keep the Paladin's board clear early on. They really don't have much they can do to retake it, aside from the 4/2 minion that gives a Truesilver weapon.

I'm also realizing something weird--I think I'm a Control player, like...genetically. My winrates with control-based decks (Priest, Highlander Mage, etc.) have been terrific. My winrates with any aggro deck, for years, have been shameful. It's so weird.

Edit: side thought, but one perk of Priest is that you can really make the Druids lives miserable. They'll sometimes overwhelm you early, sure, but a lot of the time you have enough answers for literally their entire deck (INCLUDING the 7 Ysera bullsh*t summons). Every time I've won vs. them, it's been in fatigue.

Also, if you're NOT on the coin, dropping the hand steal 2-mana minion on 2 is so satisfying. Burn their coin, burn ANY and ALL innervate-type cards they have, all while giving them your hand for a turn, which has almost nothing they can/want to play.
angel zera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 12:02 AM   #47994
jmakin
DoorDash Balla
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 29,413
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Common mistake control players make with aggro or midrange decks is trading too much. Your win condition is face damage, not outvaluing them.

Obviously YMMV but as a control player I find when Iím losing a lot with other decks itís simply because iím not taking aggressive face lines.
jmakin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 01:44 AM   #47995
master3004
Revisionist Historian
 
master3004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Obstruct Everything
Posts: 55,187
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

I'm really enjoying Totem Shaman. Getting mini-yogg out on turn 1 can lead to some huge swings, especially if it procs totemic might. It's also possible to kill Druid before the big taunts get out
master3004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 02:09 AM   #47996
angel zera
adept
 
angel zera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 835
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
Common mistake control players make with aggro or midrange decks is trading too much. Your win condition is face damage, not outvaluing them.

Obviously YMMV but as a control player I find when Iím losing a lot with other decks itís simply because iím not taking aggressive face lines.
Yeah this is 100% it. I remember way back when, I tried running Aggro Shaman (back when that was the best deck in the game...2017?) in Legend and had a sub-50% winrate over a large sample size. A friend who ran aggro decks basically told me as much when observing my games.

It's kind of OK though, because honestly I enjoy playing control decks 10 times more, so no harm done in sticking to my core style.
angel zera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 01:04 PM   #47997
prizminferno
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
prizminferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,610
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
Common mistake control players make with aggro or midrange decks is trading too much. Your win condition is face damage, not outvaluing them.

Obviously YMMV but as a control player I find when Iím losing a lot with other decks itís simply because iím not taking aggressive face lines.
This is why I can't win or play aggro

my best deck of all time remains control warrior (all variations, odd etc) and control mage but I try to play demon hunter and I'll go 50%
prizminferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 01:09 PM   #47998
jmakin
DoorDash Balla
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 29,413
Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Yea I can sometimes struggle with aggro decks but my top legend finishes were with pirate/patches warrior so i dunno. When in doubt hit the face is good advice. Against other aggro decks though trading is frequently correct.

Highlander mage is v good in this meta fyi
jmakin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 01:15 PM   #47999
jmakin
DoorDash Balla
 
jmakin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Streaming
Posts: 29,413
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

I generally like the playstyle of control more. Youíre taking longer games but trying to win 70% of them. Vs spamming games as aggro, trying to win 53% of your games, many of them unwinnable. Not as fun IMO
jmakin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 01:17 PM   #48000
dkgojackets
DKGOAT
 
dkgojackets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 85,855
Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

I didn't pay any attention to whats going to be in the expansion and havent played in a while, but just tuned into dog's stream for a bit and see that they decided to reprint innervate alongside old innervate with a way for druid to pop out 12 mana worth of stuff (straight from their deck!) on turn three or four which seems super cool and interactive.
dkgojackets is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online