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Old 12-03-2019, 04:11 AM   #47251
karamazonk
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

FYI I think a patch is dropping later this week (maybe the 5th?). The only change I know that has been confirmed is some kind of nerf to Lightfang. Personally, I think Brann is better, anyways, but he could also be getting nerfed.

Menagerie seems like the best bet right now. Get two amalgams as early as possible (one reason Curator is sweet), buff the hell out of them, and hope for an early Brann or Lightfang and a big cleave minion.

Have wins now with: Curator, Brann, Rat King, Akaramzarak, Dancin Daryl, AF Kay, Nefarian. Still have way more seconds and thirds than wins (thanks, Patchwerk). Up to mid 5600s MMR. I felt better about that before I saw ppl have exceeded 10k, but then again they've probably played four times as many matches as me (think I've played ~160 games).

Sucks when you're not offered a top half hero but I did just play a game at (I think) pretty high MMR where I finished 3rd to Patches and Ragnaros (wtf).

Have definitely been enjoying the game but I suspect I'll be grinding mostly regular HS again when the expansion drops. This set looks like it's going to be loco.
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:19 AM   #47252
karamazonk
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

^Damn, forgive the brag, but just found an article written today stating that if your rating is 4200, you're better than 77% of players. If it's 5000, you're better than 99% of players. Feels good man.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:29 PM   #47253
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

I'm 6500 atm, but I honestly don't think I'm particularly good at the game #humblebrag
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:25 AM   #47254
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Quick guide to heroes:
None of the current heroes are as good as Millicent was.

Top tier heroes:

1. Nefarian
To me this guy is just a monster, the wins with Nefarian just seem super easy. Usually not a sweat in the end game because he just powers through. If you are good at navigating the early phases and transitional periods, Nefarian is the best. Generally heroes with powers that cost gold are not very good, but he's the exception.

2. Brann
I think most people would put him No. 1 but I think there are a lot of low finishes generated by him because people are fishing for battlecries instead of just taking the best minion. Still, very capable of producing incredible boards.

3. AFKay
One of my favorites. One of the biggest RNG swings in the game is being forced to face AFK on turns 3-6, and if you have to do it twice in that period you usually never recover. Tip: Discover the four-cost first. Also, freeze any tokens on turns 1/2 for an extra body and extra gold so you can still tavern up on your swing turn.

4. Deryl
One of the most challenging and skill-intensive heroes, but very very good. Not great at winning, but very commonly a 2-4 finisher. Would probably be a god tier hero if Nefarian didn't exist, because one of the key strategies with Deryl is dancing on divine shield minions.

5. Curator
Getting a free Amalgam and usually free wins on turns 1-2 is incredible.

The next tier:
Patchwerk - Good at top 4 finishers
Yogg - Steals you wins in the early game and accrues small amounts of value throughout the game that you can grind to your advantage.
Rat King - Similar to Yogg, can highroll early advantages into a winning position, although a bit inconsistent.

Underrated
Elise - Actually saves you gold when the tavern sucks because you don't have to spend 1 to refresh and 3 to buy a minion. That's a pretty solid if unspectacular advantage to roll 4-5 times a game.
Bartendro
George - Would be top tier if Nefarian didn't exist. Has solid future if meta ever slows down.
Akazamzarak - Getting one Ice Block, which you almost always will hit, is usually good for top 5 finish. If you get 2+ then top 3 is very likely. Also, a key splitting image can be devastating.

Overrated
Sindragosa - In a way it does a lot of the things that Rat King or Yogg does, as early-game buffs are pretty important. However, freezing the tavern to get buffed minions on turn 3 means you are much less likely to discover an early Amalgam, which is one of the keys to winning BG. Oh, your Mecharoo is a 3/3? Good for you buddy.

Bad but sorta playable
Waggletop
Toki
Ragnaros
Shudderwok
Patches

Absolute trash tier:
Lich King
Putricide
Jaraxas
Gallywix
Pyrabad
Finley

I've won with all of the heroes in the bad list, including multiple wins with Toki and Waggle, but not the trash tier list. I've won with all the other heroes except Bartendro, Deryl, and Akazam.

Last edited by baudib1; 12-04-2019 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 12-04-2019, 11:34 AM   #47255
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

LMAO I just won with Kaz for the first time in the craziest game.

At final three, I was in second with 10 HP running a mech-menagerie build, first place was Deryl with 40 (!!) health, and third was Elise at 8.

I kicked the **** out of Deryl twice to knock him out in third.

Elise had beaten me twice before and then beat me three straight games, two of which ended in Ice Block popping off, then I finally won in our 6th match! Tried a bunch of stuff, including Baron, but it wasn't working. Finally added Zapp, which took out his divine shield popper, rearranged positions. Couldn't find another Ice Block but Splitting Image gave me a 50/50 poisonous. What an incredible game, both of them must have been so tilted!
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Old 12-04-2019, 01:31 PM   #47256
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Interesting list, thanks. Haven't played enough to have my own rankings but Nefarian does seem to be super strong, iirc 2 of my 3 wins so far were with him.

Going to try the "menagerie" approach next time as my usual approach of focusing on one class seems to be a bit weak, although I did really well with mech a few times. Murlocs in particular seem to be a complete joke once you get to the mid-game and beasts or demons not much better. Also I think I need to use poison more as it seems to be super-strong once you get to the late game.

Anyone have thoughts on minion ordering? I've developed a really basic strategy where I place a couple of weak ones on the left to break shields, put my big hitters in the middle, and my deathrattles on the right so they're less likely to trigger when the board is full.

This game is so much fun. My only complaint is that the timing can be really tight and sometimes I find myself having to make a bunch of decisions in a few seconds.
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Old 12-04-2019, 02:22 PM   #47257
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTimSalabim View Post

Anyone have thoughts on minion ordering? I've developed a really basic strategy where I place a couple of weak ones on the left to break shields, put my big hitters in the middle, and my deathrattles on the right so they're less likely to trigger when the board is full.
This is pretty much my plan too. Would be interesting but not sure if more fun if minions attacked in random order....maybe that would be an interesting hero power. (Opponent minions attach in random order).
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:13 PM   #47258
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

I think justsaiyan has the best tier list atm

https://imgur.com/a/vfgQDxB
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:11 PM   #47259
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

ive got no idea what they're trying to do with mage this expansion

also obviously upset they decided to triple down on hate cards
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:17 PM   #47260
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTimSalabim View Post
Interesting list, thanks. Haven't played enough to have my own rankings but Nefarian does seem to be super strong, iirc 2 of my 3 wins so far were with him.

Going to try the "menagerie" approach next time as my usual approach of focusing on one class seems to be a bit weak, although I did really well with mech a few times. Murlocs in particular seem to be a complete joke once you get to the mid-game and beasts or demons not much better. Also I think I need to use poison more as it seems to be super-strong once you get to the late game.

Anyone have thoughts on minion ordering? I've developed a really basic strategy where I place a couple of weak ones on the left to break shields, put my big hitters in the middle, and my deathrattles on the right so they're less likely to trigger when the board is full.

This game is so much fun. My only complaint is that the timing can be really tight and sometimes I find myself having to make a bunch of decisions in a few seconds.
Minion ordering is really important but sometimes there are builds where you don't have much flexibility. For example, if your finisher is Junkbot or Hyena or you run Baron, they need to be as far away from danger as possible.

If your opponent is running cleave, you must space out your threats so that they can't take down 2+ divine shields or small poisonous creatures with one hit, so placing Brann or Lightfang or other buff minion (like a sensei) between taunts is often good.

Beast builds are tough because you usually need to order them exactly a certain way, because you need your minions to die in a specific order. A lot of times in menagerie builds running Battlemaster, I'll put a big taunt on the far right and Battlemaster to his left, as it won't die to a Hydra/Foe Reaper, and it does a good job cleaning up once the big hitters and Maexxna's are dead.
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:20 PM   #47261
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bortlicense View Post
I think justsaiyan has the best tier list atm

https://imgur.com/a/vfgQDxB
I really think Sindragosa and Putricide are terrible. I've watched Saiyan and it seems he changes his mind a lot on them, he was tracking AFK/Curator places because he thought they were much weaker post-nerfs.
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Old 12-04-2019, 10:31 PM   #47262
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Syndragosa strong imo even with the non-thinking strat of simply freezing every turn regardless of what's offered.

Anything that's strong early game snowballs into mid/late.
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Old 12-04-2019, 11:57 PM   #47263
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Old 12-05-2019, 12:33 AM   #47264
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

ahhh dang
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Old 12-05-2019, 02:01 AM   #47265
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

COngrats, that's sick dude!

I don't think Sindy is trash tier, I just think she's overrated. Probably averageish. I'd take Elise over her easily.

There is a cost to freezing minions, which is 1 gold, because if you don't freeze, you get to look at a new set of minions each time. Elise and Bartendo (and in a severe way, AFK) subtly benefit from viewing more minions at a cheaper cost.
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:48 AM   #47266
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

It's true there's a cost, but I'd say most of the time a syndragosa-buffed minion is better than a random one.
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Old 12-05-2019, 04:42 PM   #47267
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Recently came back into playing Hearthstone a bit mostly due to Battlegrounds and have also been watching a ton of streamers. I think dog in particular is good if you're trying to understand the game better. He also does fewer "technical" mistakes than someone like Collins who I really can't understand how he can be so high MMR. I guess playing a ton is really important.

The fact that pretty much everyone is at a 1:3 ratio of wins and top 4 seems like an indication that it's pretty much luck for the last part of it.

Dog does the whole selling a buffer before rolling a lot more consistently than others. Collins occasionally picks up random poison that he doesn't need which seems pretty good actually since it removes it from the queue and is a big swing minion for your opponent even if you don't need it. I guess turns that actually make you stronger are still better.

It seems like a lot of people think that just rolling more gives you some evenly distributed chance of all minions of a tier, but it does seem like some minions are more or less rare in a game. Like you'll see the crowd favorite not on just one player a lot, maybe I'm just seeing things that are random, but certainly seems like there's more of a pool per game.

Also seems pretty bad to try to triple an important buff minion like coldlight seer even if you end up with a buff or two, but maybe I just got unlucky those games and am reading too much into it.

For the minion placement I've been toying with an idea of the enemy minions being fairly consistent in health for a certain level, at least the early game. Like you'll come across a lot of 3 health in turn 3-4 when the board starts to fill up, which I guess is why spawn becomes so good. The thing being that then setting up your minions so you have a 3 attack followed by a 1 attack instead of a 3 into 2 might be good, haven't tried this too much lately but rather just put the strong ones first and weaker / higher star further back.

Seems like letting a cleave drift further back is also good when there's lots of shields, i.e. 4th rather than 3rd, but I guess this is where keeping track of what your opp is actually playing becomes relevant.

Also Ghastcoiler seems kinda underrated I think, it can really swing games especially when poison becomes a thing. I guess it competes with hydra for the beast slot rather heavily which is the main reason it's not played more than except to fill out a slot.
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:57 PM   #47268
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Played against a "scout326" earlier today. Odds it's THE scout326?
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:50 PM   #47269
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Holy ****. Rafaam is super OP in Battlegrounds
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:31 AM   #47270
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

I chose Rafaam as soon as I was offered him and it lead to a very satisfying first. The guy in second never thought to re-order his minions, so I killed him on the same turn that I collected a third of his Goldrinns, which I'm guessing would have turned in to a free triple had he survived.
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Old 12-06-2019, 05:31 AM   #47271
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

LMAO RAfaam needs to be nerfed to 2 gold for hero power.

One game I was able to level up a Spawn of Nzoth just based on stolen minions, and two Hydras. Spawn in early game is +6/+6, and for it's power spike in early game, more powerful than old Lightfang IMO.

I think Edwin is also very good, probably better than Yogg or Ratking.

New AFK is OK, probably just above average. Kripp makes a good point that you get a chance to get Cobalt twice, which is insane on turn 3. But you have fewer of the 12-damage blowouts on turn 4.

I've gotten Lich B twice and finished second both games. I've had some success with demons, as in finishing top 4 with mediocre demon builds that top out at Siegebreaker. I don't think demons are OP, but they're competitive. You're not doomed to finish 8th when the game insists on giving you demons. I'm not sure why, because I didn't even get the Floating Watcher. Maybe it's not running into insane menagerie comps. Leveling up quickly to get Malgannis to get one free gold per turn is quite good.

Divine shield murlocs are absolutely the top comps if you can get it.
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:48 PM   #47272
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Had a long match that came down to me as George against Nefarian. Almost pulled it off but that has to be one of the worst hero power matchups.

Did not have much success in my one game as Rafaam. Only got garbage cards and got eliminated early though I probably made some bad decisions as well. Can see how it would be a good power to have in the late game though.
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:39 PM   #47273
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

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Originally Posted by TimTimSalabim View Post
Had a long match that came down to me as George against Nefarian. Almost pulled it off but that has to be one of the worst hero power matchups.

Did not have much success in my one game as Rafaam. Only got garbage cards and got eliminated early though I probably made some bad decisions as well. Can see how it would be a good power to have in the late game though.
Ive gone 2 for 2 with rafaam. On both occasions, I do not upgrade on 4, instead I buy a minion and use the hero power. It works out pretty well.
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:33 PM   #47274
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

I've had some epic George vs. Nef battles for first and I haven't won them either. Not much you can do in that spot.

DOn't ask me how but I've played 3 games as Lich B with demons and finished second, second and first. Most of them were shitty demon comps. I don't really get it why it worked but maybe demons benefit the most from not getting power spiked out of the game around turn 11 by early Lightfangers.

Definitely in the game I won, I was astonished at how low the power levels of the top 4 were.
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:44 PM   #47275
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Depends on how strong the nefarian is and on positioning but often you can win by replacing quote unquote strong units like buffed cave hydras/foe reapers for things like fallen hero or kaboom bots cos if nef survives the early game they often survive to the late game without a super strong board and thinking about which units give you an advantage in divine shields can matter more than which units give you the most raw stats.

Hit 7k but think i'm going to take a break till they reset the mmr and let me pay for 3 hero picks with gold rather than cash.
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