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Hearthstone Join... or die. Or both?

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Old Yesterday, 04:07 PM   #45351
Aceium
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

I think I would have tried to come up with another idea. Maybe a 4 mana 2/2 and it only summons 1 annoy-o-tron.

In general, I think that they may have missed this card in the initial balance evaluation because maybe they thought the meta would look a lot different, or during playtesting they expected a much different deck to define things. It feels similar to the problem with Corridor Creeper. I doubt they expected the meta to get to the point where the best version of any archetype, was to take that deck and put in Patches, Southsea Captain, and Corridor Creeper. That's a very weird deck choice but it just happened. I think Giggling Inventor would have been easier to predict as a problem card than Corridor Creeper, though.
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Old Yesterday, 04:15 PM   #45352
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

The reason they missed it is this, imo:

On the surface, from a raw value perspective, it does not look broken. 9 stats + 2 divine shields/taunts for 5 mana is kind of in line with the current powercreep. If they had a 5 mana 4/5 with taunt it would probably not be an issue. They probably looked at it like - "Well, annoy-o-tron was 2 mana, so a 2/1 for 1 mana isn't that bad."

The problem is it is 3 bodies in a meta that rewards flooding the board (fungalmancer, etc.). Another related issue is that there isn't really a reliable way to deal with it or clear it. It kind of completely shuts down the board for a few turns.

Combine that with the power of magnetic and the strength of odd aggro decks and boom, broken as **** card. It's just a classic case of them underestimating the impact of things on the meta, while also encouraging certain complementary playstyles that will for sure dominate that meta. I think multiple people must work on the balance team and it seems like they are very much not in sync. I think their playtesting probably sucks a lot too, because it was pretty obvious even on day 1 that giggling was broken.
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Old Yesterday, 04:29 PM   #45353
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

All of the above posts I think are accurate, and on top of that I wonder how deep their playtesting really is. I agree that I think they simply overlook and don't understand how powerful some of these cards can become. The community is built to find and exploit the best decks and strategies... If a card is good, the players will eventually realize so.
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Old Yesterday, 04:49 PM   #45354
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

How about a total brute-force algorithm aspect of playtesting? Test every possible combination of deck against every other possible combination of decks 10,000 times each and see what kind of outliers you find. This would take some massive computing power but I'll be the results would be interesting. We would run in to some AI-limitations, but who knows, maybe event the Innkeeper could figure out that Giggling Inventor is a winning play...

Back in the day I donated some of my computer's idle cycles to the Folding @ Home project. It would be cool if we could integrate something like that in to the Battle.net app. Instead of sitting idly waiting for me to re-up my WoW subscription or buy blops4, how about you simulate a few thousand games of Goldshire Footman vs. Magma Rager?
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Old Yesterday, 06:02 PM   #45355
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

They didn't nerf giggling to 7 because even warlock. They did it to make 100% sure quest rogue can't spam two of them in one turn. 6 would've allowed it still. Also, your man Mossy Horror deals with a non-buffed GI.

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Old Yesterday, 08:55 PM   #45356
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
Really underwhelming changes.

Mana worm goes to 2? Tempo mage wasn't that popular or strong of a deck. VS has it as a lower tier 2 deck. It feels like they want to create development space for strong 1 mana cards in the future and didn't want 2 mana wyrms to be auto-includes in every tempo mage deck for the rest of eternity (i.e. the fiery war axe nerf). So little to no meta impact here.

Aviana is for wild, so whatever.

And then we have giggling inventor which was played in a lot of decks and was super strong. 7 mana should make it mostly unplayable. Except for quest rogue maybe? I think a nerf to 6 would've still been playable but with 7 they just want to remove it from the game. Will removing 1 card change the meta that much? Eh...
mage SUCKS now, mana wyrm is RUINED now.
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Old Yesterday, 09:15 PM   #45357
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

the nerfs are so confusing to me i dont even know what the dev team is doing
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Old Yesterday, 10:36 PM   #45358
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

Mana Wyrm nerf was needed about 2 years ago

rest seems meh, feels like they are just gonna let all rotation **** just live it's course sadly
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Old Yesterday, 11:15 PM   #45359
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Re: Hearthstone?! (Blizzard online card game)

druid is just too versatile. some of their chose one cards need to have worse options like branching is just too flexible--12 armor for 4 mana is good value.

druid also shouldn't have real viable one card removal.

not sure if there has ever been a time where a class had so many viable decks:

token
taunt
big EZ
maly
togwoggle

plague is in all but 1, same thing with malfurion and ultimate infestation. nourish is in all of them, swipe in all of them, branching in all of them, WG is all of them. it's base cards and classic are so strong and versatile.
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