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10-12-2015 , 02:32 PM

#22851

dkgojackets

DKGOAT

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86,123

i think warsong should operate like tundra rhino

Quote

10-12-2015 , 02:34 PM

#22852

Bloobird

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 24,250

also

despite all the other aids cards that exist

my utmost hatred will always be reserved for

Spoiler:

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10-12-2015 , 02:56 PM

#22853

Priptonite

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,204

Been enjoying mech Rogue (f2p, only playing a month or so) and decided to try mech Warlock. Have only played ~5 or so games with it but feels like wasted dust. Shoulda just gone for mech Mage.

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10-12-2015 , 03:40 PM

#22854

Kirbynator

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 52,004

im still surprised that fel cannon was never a thing

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10-12-2015 , 03:43 PM

#22855

feedthabeast

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 8,302

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloobird

also

despite all the other aids cards that exist

my utmost hatred will always be reserved for

Spoiler:

Y u no like turn 3 7/3 mana wyrm?! It's fun for everyone.

Quote

10-12-2015 , 04:13 PM

#22856

D104

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 18,255

I couldn't be more down on piloted shredder atm. I've dropped it out of like every one of my decks. I'm probably just running bad but I feel like TGT made it a lot weaker. Or drop cho more.

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10-12-2015 , 04:23 PM

#22857

bixby snyder

A distant second

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 6,396

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgojackets

i think warsong should operate like tundra rhino

Yeah, at least if killing your Warsong meant losing charge you'd eliminate some of the stupid Frothing OTKs. Every time I play Patron and drop 3x whirlwind effects I have this sinking feeling like I messed up, but then I remember, the interaction is ridiculously favorable...

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10-12-2015 , 04:51 PM

#22858

TheRempel

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,281

I have always thought that Force of Nature needs to be changed, but I think it's just that savage roar needs to not exist. In the same way BGH changes the design space in that it becomes difficult to release 7+ attack minions that are actually playable, Savage Roar makes any card that makes multiple minions that much better.

Make turn it into "Boom Roar - All Your Minions have 1-3 Attack This Turn".

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10-12-2015 , 04:54 PM

#22859

TheRempel

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,281

Shredder is less good now because it's specifically weak to token decks, and two of the top decks right now are two of the most cancerous token decks to have ever existed in this game.

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10-12-2015 , 06:09 PM

#22860

Wolfram

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,066

I think HS and the current meta is remarkably balanced.

None of the decks are discustingly op. People keep crying about how OP patron is but where are the numbers to show it? According to hearthstats.net warrior doesn't even break the top 5 winrates in constructed. And as for the pros, well they agree it's broken, but when liquidhearth compiled tournament stats since it emered it's around a 50% performance.

My theory is that the reason people complain so much about patron is based on emotion. It feels worse to lose to than most other decks. The same goes for all the crying about the druid combo.

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10-12-2015 , 06:27 PM

#22861

BobboFitos

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72,763

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirbynator

im still surprised that fel cannon was never a thing

Ive had really good results with that card

In arena

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10-12-2015 , 06:30 PM

#22862

capone0

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 43,152

How does heartstats get their stats? If it's self reported, there is a huge bias.

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10-12-2015 , 07:18 PM

#22863

Wolfram

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Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,066

Quote:

Originally Posted by capone0

How does heartstats get their stats? If it's self reported, there is a huge bias.

I think they use stats from their tracking software so there is a bias towards dedicated players. That bias probably inflates the winrates but shouldn't affect the ranking of classes if the sample is big enough.

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10-12-2015 , 07:22 PM

#22864

Cotton Hill

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 12,307

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfram

Even if Patron is balanced it's still poorly designed IMO. Flipping a coin is balanced too, but I wouldn't call it a well designed game of strategy.

The game is supposed to feel interactive, like your choices vs. your opponents choices. Patron is a non-interactive deck.

Balanced is a necessary but not sufficient condition.

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10-12-2015 , 07:32 PM

#22865

Wolfram

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,066

I only said that I think HS is balanced, nothing more. Whether or not its fun or well designed is subjective.

I happen to agree that its not much fun to play vs patron where he basically just cycles cards and removes a couple of threats to stall and then wins in one turn. But patron is only one deck out of dozens. This month I've faced remarkably few patrons in my climb from 20 to 5, so to me it isn't a huge problem. Maybe they get more common in higher ranks.

Last edited by Wolfram; 10-12-2015 at 07:38 PM.

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10-12-2015 , 07:39 PM

#22866

capone0

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Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 43,152

Grimm is not interactive, the other issue like miracle rogue back in the day it's tough so even for experienced player so the stats might indicate it's not as good as it really is at the higher levels due to average to good players learning or struggling with the deck. I find it hard to believe the deck every pro has basically had number one for essentially 4 months has a low win rate by those who actually know how to use it.

Quote

10-12-2015 , 07:47 PM

#22867

BobboFitos

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72,763

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgojackets

i think warsong should operate like tundra rhino

I'm not following. Only beasts should get charged? Otherwise it does operate like Tundra

Quote

10-12-2015 , 07:48 PM

#22868

darO

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,521

Meaning they lose it if warsong dies

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10-12-2015 , 07:49 PM

#22869

BobboFitos

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 72,763

Quote:

Originally Posted by capone0

Grim Patron is def the deck that you play a turn and like a turn or 2 later you realize you prob had an even better option, and the games you lose like 80%+ were maybe winnable

to me the skill gap can be explained by how many winnable or unwinnable games a specific deck has. The more of both the "easier", more of one but not the other makes a deck better/worse, etc. Patron has very few unwinnable games and the games that are lost tend to be becauseo f error

Quote

10-12-2015 , 07:50 PM

#22870

capone0

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 43,152

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobboFitos

I'm not following. Only beasts should get charged? Otherwise it does operate like Tundra

Instead of the word "Get" it should have the word "have."

Me and another 2+2er were testing copying Grimms and it's interesting. They get is a permanent buff while have is temporary as long as something is alive.

Last edited by capone0; 10-12-2015 at 08:04 PM.

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10-12-2015 , 07:54 PM

#22871

dkgojackets

DKGOAT

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86,123

yeah. it should read "your minions with three or less attack have charge"

Quote

10-12-2015 , 07:59 PM

#22872

Wolfram

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,066

Quote:

Originally Posted by capone0

I find it hard to believe the deck every pro has basically had number one for essentially 4 months has a low win rate by those who actually know how to use it.

Ok, then why does it have a sub 50% winrate in big tournaments?

http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/he...-matchup-chart

Granted, this is blackrock mountain only and the sample size is small. But still, nobody has shown any data that says patron is broken at either the casual level or the pro level.

Quote

10-12-2015 , 08:01 PM

#22873

darO

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,521

Because it has defined the meta and every deck is starting to gameplan/play decks that do well against it.

It's the same reason Handlock posted a pretty bad record this weekend

Quote

10-12-2015 , 08:06 PM

#22874

capone0

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 43,152

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfram

Look at the decks they bring to tourneys now.

1) Most are anti grimm--let's see Handlock, Mid Range (supposedly it's good against grimm).
2) Grimm is still tough to play even at a high level.

I personally think Grimm is a great ladder deck and a much worse tourney deck where there isn't a ton of aggro and there are a ton of decks built to beat it. The current meta is around 50% aggro so it makes sense that Grimm is very good in it.

Quote

10-12-2015 , 08:12 PM

#22875

Wolfram

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,066

Quote:

Originally Posted by darO

Because it has defined the meta and every deck is starting to gameplan/play decks that do well against it.

It's the same reason Handlock posted a pretty bad record this weekend

There were more control warriors than patron warriors in the americas championships.

I mean, maybe Patron is truly the best deck and it warps the competitive environment around it. Or maybe it is a good deck that got overhyped so badly that it became a self-fulfilling prophecy and people have been drinking the coolaid since then.

All I'm saying is that there is a weird discrepancy between the data I've seen and the claims of the pros.

Last edited by Wolfram; 10-12-2015 at 08:19 PM.

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