I would be on board with Blade Flurry being "Destroy your weapon and deal its damage to all enemy minions." I feel like this may make a deck completely non-viable though. Like, I haven't looked at the numbers...is the oil deck that much of a favorite? Almost every currently viable deck has an "I win" combination that draws perfect a certain percentage of the time. This deck clearly doesn't have it happen THAT often. Maybe it's fine.

I'd also be down with Boom Bots only dealing 1-2 damage OOOOOOR deal its damage to a random character like mad bomber RNG.

I would prefer boom bots doing only 1-2 instead of being able to target all characters, which I think would make the card unplayable. I also like the idea of the boom bots not exploding if dr boom is not in play.

I'm not too sure on how this will affect the card's overall power level, but I really like this idea. Like the bombs can't go off if the engineer isn't there.

you make some very good points bobo, but one should look at the way the most common archetypes of warlock are composed in contrast to basicly every other deck in the game.
in every other class decks have a core of class cards that are complimented by some neutral cards to fill holes.
warlock on the other hand plays a core of strong neautrals complimented by some class cards.
thats the logical consequence of the warlock hero ability the inefficemcy of the warock class cards and the needed pool of usefull neutrals.
its in my oppinion an unhealthy inbalance build into the very core of the game.
cards like doctor boom or what ever that seem overpowered at the moment arent that big of a deal considering the big picture. its an issue that will deal with itself one way or the other.
powercreep, tech cards or if all else fails a system like in mtg where not all cards are legal in certain formats will take care of it.
th warlock heropower on the other hand does not go away no matter what, unless it is nerfed

Sign me up for this change 100%. BF is just ******ed strong with oil.

Would recycle see play at 5 mana?

i doubt it

at 4 mana it would be played a lot

It's a dumb card because if you give druid cheap hard removal, the class would prob become OP. So it kinda has to be over costed and thus no one runs it.

also, forgot to complain about loatheb, the card is too powerful for a 5 drop, op battlecry, kills sludge beltcher, what more could u possibly want from ur 5?

Lol

They changed Bane of Doom, now you actually summon a random demon its a pretty good card now

Source?

ya i saw the same on their facebook, its in the patch notes under bug fixes for the blackrock patch

http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/831-bl...ial-patchnotes

its live I tried it out got both jaraxxus and Mal'Ganis in my first 10 plays

Bug Fixes

Friends that are Away on the Battle.net App will no longer be displayed in your online friend count.
We’ve nailed the game board to the table: Spells that create screen shaking effects should no longer get your screen stuck in a bad position.
Warsong Commander will now give charge to minions summoned by other minions—charge forward!
Bane of Doom can now summon any collectible demons. Doom . . . DOOM!
Sylvanas will no longer steal a minion that is about to die, which is weird because that’s generally her thing.
Vol'jin will no longer kill itself if the only other minion in play is stealthed.
Minions that are spawned from a Deathrattle are now targetable sooner. This will affect the Slime from Sludge Belcher, as well as the spawns from Harvest Golem and the Shredders.
General bug fixes and UI improvements.

Aww snap. And warsong is fixed? Time to bust out some math warrior and revamp demon lock.

Seems like a great card now, it's only bad value if you get voidwalker, mistress of pain, flame imp or blood imp. Fair value on succubus, void terror and floating watcher, and good to great value on the remaining 8 demons.

The problem is that BGH is underpowered when he has no target, and overpowered when he does. There's no happy medium with the card.

It also means every new 7+ attack card has to be balanced around having an immediate impact, or risk getting BGH'ed (read: they never get used in high rank play)

searix, it actually does make you wonder what the natural tradeoff is with a card between mana cost and stats. as in, the magma core new card - if it's ALWAYS a 7/7 4 mana, is it playable? if the fel reaver didn't have a draw back, is a 8/8 5 mana good enough?

I think the answer to both qs is "no". it would have to be something insane, like a 3 mana 7/7, for the stats to trump doing nothing but getting BGHed. (because otherwise everyone would just play the 4 mana mountain giants!)

I don't really agree that they wouldn't get played. mountain giants don't get played cuz most arechetypes can't get them out on turn 4 and/or can't afford to miss 4 turns.

As to your general general question though about what the cost/stat threshold would need to be I'd note that there just aren't really any 'vanilla' XX for X 'just a body' cards which get played consistently in competetive decks besides giants (spider tank I guess?). BGH or no BGH, bodies aren't real threats, the abilities that come with them are what impacts the game, even in handlock or control mage giants aren't really an issue until they've been taunted up otherwise it's just an 8/8 and you really don't care much about it cuz your opponent is at 9 and you have a full board.

id actually argue there arent any vanilla xx cards played bc they simply dont exist after like mana cost 4. (outside of like a core hound which flatout blows)

yeti was played up until kinda recently. (i still see some decks with it once in a blue moon)

ogre is played by new people who lack any legit legendary late game

looking through the entire collection, almost every card has text. here are the ones without: (including card classes, like murloc raider is a murloc, therefore not vanilla)

-wisp (some hobgoblin decks play it)
-murloc raider (as noted above, is a murloc, therefore not totally vanilla)
-bloodfen raptor, river croc (a long time ago some hunter lists included 1 raptor) *these are beasts so shouldn't even be included
-magma rager (lol magma rager)
-yeti (still sometimes played)
-snapjaw (if druid beast deck is ever a thing, i actually believe this card will see some play) *this is a beast so it shouldn't be included
-salty dog (is a pirate, but actually the only text-less 5 mana card!)
-ogre, core hound (is a beast), and war golem

That's it!

The giants are technically vanilla, so they are a perfect example of mana cost ratio to stats provided. they are not only playable, but the centers are various successful decks (handlock/echo decks)

a 1 mana vanilla 2/2 prob would be played, but maybe not. would it replace chow in the decks people run chow? possibly, since it undeniably would be better in the late game. and sometimes mid game.
a 2 mana totally vanilla 3/3 would be played. imo. this card would have to be better than a 3/2 with a class distinction (the raptor)
a 3 mana 4/4 would be played, but that's not a fair comparison, since a 3 mana 4/4 deathrattle sometimes drawback (dancing sword) or ogre brute (misses target 50% of the time) are things. the 3/4 stuff either is cultist (deathrattle that rarely procs!) or spider tank (mech synergy!) so... 4/3 vanilla? that likely would not be played.
a 4 mana card is then 4/5, the yeti. it's solid
if they changed the 7/4 salty dog to a 4/7 vanilla 5 mana.. i think it could see some play. given the dog has pirate synergy (if such a thing even exists) maybe a 4/7 vanilla is underpowered!
the 6 mana is the 6/7. its' not played but in a bgh heavy meta i actually could see some people running an ogre. it's just a really good minion. (although not as good as a piloted sky golem, so nm with anyone who owns that epic)
the 7 mana vanilla is war golem. 7/7 aint good enough.

and so on

My somewhat poorly articulated point was that stats to cost ratio aren't king in constructed, abilities are. Boulderfist is the prime example, every 6 drop that sees play has objectively worse stats, Temple Enforcer in the 6 slot is another one. Nobody plays it in Priest and it has a cool ability, just not one that really impacts the game enough. So, the original question of 'what is the right balance of stat/cost' is constructed around the BGH argument whereas the reality is it's not BGH that prevents anything from seeing play.

When I look at the pool of cards that are in bgh range, people might claim if it weren't for bgh they'd play them but the reality is that they don't get played because there are better abilities for the mana cost out there for the environment and / or other factors in the environment that inhibit their play. BGH isn't a problem preventing 7+ power cards from being played but rather the solution that enables Blizzard to keep pumping them out with more and more potent abilities which is what they need to actually see some play.

that makes no sense. bgh is part of "the environment" that inhibits play. cards like fel reaver, druid of the fang, and earth elemental are completely unplayable because bgh exists but could absolutely see play otherwise

seriously? come on. 2 out of these three cards aren't even good in arena and BGH isn't a threat there. earth elemental doesn't see play because for some reason shaman doesn't like to skip turn 6. fel reaver doesn't see play because the downside is absurdly bad and there happens to be a fantastic 5 cost taunt in a large portion of decks and DOTF doesn't see play because it's a terrible combo card which yields a result that has little impact on the game. 2

lol arena

I'm not talking about throwing these cards into a standard build as random one-offs. beast druid cannot exist as a deck type simply because the "benefit" of druid fang is to get instantly killed. fel reaver could absolutely be a tempo play in aggro since the cards in your deck are completely irrelevant until fatigue. crusher shaman was another fun deck that got killed once bgh's were everywhere.