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Old 03-01-2012, 02:08 PM   #1
Mahowny
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Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

One of our home game hosts has posted an upcoming, low buy in, NLHE tournament with an unusual twist. The player that wins the hand also wins the button.

As an example, if the person 2 positions to your right happens to go on a heater & wins 3 hands in a row, you get unlucky & are paying the big blind 3 times in a row. If you are short stacked late in the contest and sweating the approaching blinds - the person on your left wins the pot and the button jumps over you.

This sounds like a very interesting concept. Has anyone played in a game using it?

I wonder how it might work as a wacky twist to a cash game?

Thoughts? We will use you input & explore it further on an upcoming episode of the Top Pair Home Game Podcast (www.toppair.net)
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:06 PM   #2
eneely
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

Oh man, I would expect aggressive, savvy players to ramp it up even more, trying to hold onto the button. I would have to be Jeremiah Johnson, or check-raise in the right spots.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:22 PM   #3
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

I've played a tournament like this and it is a lot of fun. It forces the blinds to defend and play back at late position raisers. The tournament provides a great lesson in the importance of position in NLHE.

Our structure was good, so players were deep enough to make moves. Lots of opens in the HJ and CO positions with a lot of 3 and 4 bets preflop from the BTN and the blinds.

I'd recommend giving it a shot, at least for the experience. It proved to be lots of fun.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:12 PM   #4
2p2jim
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

As a way to water down the unfairness (to the person 2 left of the aggressive chip leader) how about having no blinds just antes.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:15 PM   #5
Aidan
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

that person just has to stop being a nit!!

This sounds like an intriguing idea.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:03 PM   #6
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

I might try this, as well. I can think of a couple of people who don't enjoy tournaments who might be willing to play this structure.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:26 PM   #7
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

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Originally Posted by 2p2jim View Post
As a way to water down the unfairness (to the person 2 left of the aggressive chip leader) how about having no blinds just antes.
It's not "unfairness". It's the structure of the tournament. Adjust.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:26 PM   #8
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

I like it, but I might have a hard time selling it to the NLHE-bots that I tourney with.
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Old 03-01-2012, 05:54 PM   #9
Precept24
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

I won't do it, because Wesrwood would play more aggressively (if that's possible).

Last edited by Precept24; 03-01-2012 at 05:54 PM. Reason: subtle jab thrown in
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:29 PM   #10
DavidNB
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

its interesting but players may pick up on trying to ditch the short stack. Players could learn to fold hands just to force the short stack to put in a BB.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:25 AM   #11
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

A couple of years ago they ran a tournament like this at TI in vegas. They did it as a special event for March Madness. They called it Make It - Take It.

Here is a link to a discussion of that tournament http://www.allvegaspoker.com/forum/v...p=83245#p83244
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:50 AM   #12
Luckie Donkey
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

Sounds like a fun change to the norm. Don't know if I would like to play it all the time but certainly once or twice for a change.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:11 PM   #13
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

This sounds like fun. Playing with just antes would give the button an even bigger advantage because he'd act last preflop.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:31 PM   #14
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob147 View Post
This sounds like fun. Playing with just antes would give the button an even bigger advantage because he'd act last preflop.
Very good point. You could instead incorporate a new draw for seats mid-way through the tournament, maybe an hour into a 3 or 4 hour tournament.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:59 PM   #15
Mahowny
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

The host just further clarified his structure. Instead of re-doing all player positions, the winner of the hand is given a "Winner's Button" that allows them to act last. Regular button + blinds rotate clockwise one position per hand as normal but the winner of the prior hand, with his "Winner's Button" gets skipped over in the action & is given the opportunity to act last.

I guess this is a twist being used in some casinos & cardrooms and is full explained at this web site; http://www.positionpoker.com/rules.html
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:01 PM   #16
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

Wow, more complicated, but it is not quite so positionally tilted.

What about the other streets? How does that work?
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:51 PM   #17
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

Quote:
Originally Posted by eneely View Post
Wow, more complicated, but it is not quite so positionally tilted.

What about the other streets? How does that work?
From the linked site:
Quote:
Therefore, in Position Poker:
  • PRE-FLOP: The holder of the WINNER'S BUTTON bets AFTER the Dealer Button but before the small blind, unless the holder of the WINNER"S BUTTON is the Big Blind. In that case he acts AFTER the small blind.
  • AFTER THE FLOP: The holder of the WINNER'S BUTTON acts AFTER the holder of the Dealer Button -- ALWAYS.
  • AFTER THE TURN CARD: The holder of the WINNER'S BUTTON acts AFTER the holder of the Dealer Button -- ALWAYS.
  • AFTER THE RIVER CARD: The holder of the WINNER'S BUTTON acts AFTER the holder of the Dealer Button -- ALWAYS
Note: The WINNER'S BUTTON is ONLY AWARDED after a hand in which there is ONLY ONE WINNER and is not awarded to any player in a split or so-called chopped pot.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:14 PM   #18
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

Thanks. That link looked too much like a FAQ, so I didn't click it.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:29 PM   #19
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

you could also go the other way, and the winner becomes the dealer+1 the next hand, with perhaps only one blind. That would dampen the impact of having the aggro guy on your left.
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:32 PM   #20
eneely
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

Quote:
Therefore, in Position Poker™:
  • PRE-FLOP: The holder of the WINNER'S BUTTON bets AFTER the Dealer Button but before the small blind, unless the holder of the WINNER"S BUTTON is the Big Blind. In that case he acts AFTER the small blind.
  • AFTER THE FLOP: The holder of the WINNER'S BUTTON acts AFTER the holder of the Dealer Button -- ALWAYS.
  • AFTER THE TURN CARD: The holder of the WINNER'S BUTTON acts AFTER the holder of the Dealer Button -- ALWAYS.
  • AFTER THE RIVER CARD: The holder of the WINNER'S BUTTON acts AFTER the holder of the Dealer Button -- ALWAYS
Note: The WINNER'S BUTTON is ONLY AWARDED after a hand in which there is ONLY ONE WINNER and is not awarded to any player in a split or so-called chopped pot.
So pre-flop, he is either in post-button position, or he plays the BB if he is on the BB. Not bad. On every other street, he is post-button.

Actually, this takes care of the blind problem, as the dealer button could be anywhere on the table vs the winner button. And if the same player wins five hands in a row, the blinds are moving as usual, so no one gets stuck paying every one of them.

So...not bad at all.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:42 AM   #21
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

What's the ruling on split pots?
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:48 AM   #22
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

They share the amount in the pot between the winning players? Am i missing something?
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:02 AM   #23
eneely
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaper View Post
They share the amount in the pot between the winning players? Am i missing something?
yes
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:35 AM   #24
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaper View Post
They share the amount in the pot between the winning players? Am i missing something?
In SOME of the medium high level tournaments they give split pots entirely to the OOP winner. This rule is obviously flawed on so many levels but that could be what he was refering to.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:06 AM   #25
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Re: Winner Of the Hand Wins the Button Twist

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Originally Posted by DeeVee8 View Post
What's the ruling on split pots?
Nobody gets a winner button
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