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Verbal Action on the BB Verbal Action on the BB

08-26-2011 , 02:14 AM
Quick question. Sorry if this is stupid or something but I actually had never had this come up until a recent home game.

Player asks BB in limped pot: "option?"
BB: "no." or "no good." and appears to be counting out chips.

Is this a check, or a "I'm not checking, give me a second to size my raise."?
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-26-2011 , 03:23 AM
Typically, I would take a "no" as "no, I'm not raising". The easiest thing to do if there is confusion is ask a player to be more specific.

Dealer: "Option?"
Player: "No"
Dealer: "Is that a check?"
Player: ....

then act accordingly. If it doesn't sink in to that player, then just tell them to use the words "check" or "raise" (or "fold" I guess if they really wanted to...).
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-26-2011 , 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by avaholic
Typically, I would take a "no" as "no, I'm not raising". The easiest thing to do if there is confusion is ask a player to be more specific.

Dealer: "Option?"
Player: "No"
Dealer: "Is that a check?"
Player: ....

then act accordingly. If it doesn't sink in to that player, then just tell them to use the words "check" or "raise" (or "fold" I guess if they really wanted to...).


Anytime something ambiguous comes up, just ask for clarification and intent.
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-26-2011 , 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbobwe00
BB: "no." or "no good." and appears to be counting out chips.

Is this a check, or a "I'm not checking, give me a second to size my raise."?
If you're trying to lock them into a specific action, based on this vagueness, then -1 for you.

As others have said, get clarity. If there's a lot of confusing verbal moves being made, then either eliminate the use of verbal or try to agree as a group on some standards.
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-26-2011 , 01:50 PM
Since you asked if I use the wording you mentioned above specifically - "Option?" I take it that BB knows what option means hence

a "yes" will typically mean - yes I'm taking my option to check and see a flop

and "no" to mean - no I am electing to raise instead

But if this is not a game among a regular crowd familiar with the lingo I will (a) just ask spcifically if he is checking or raising and (b) never ever take an answer as specified above as binding and will ask said player to spell it out - are you checking or raising?
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-26-2011 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanyi
Since you asked if I use the wording you mentioned above specifically - "Option?" I take it that BB knows what option means hence

a "yes" will typically mean - yes I'm taking my option to check and see a flop

and "no" to mean - no I am electing to raise instead

But if this is not a game among a regular crowd familiar with the lingo I will (a) just ask spcifically if he is checking or raising and (b) never ever take an answer as specified above as binding and will ask said player to spell it out - are you checking or raising?
I view the following:

'no' = "No thank you. I will not exercise my option to raise."

'yes' = "Yes. I will exercise my option to raise."

I guess that's why we are all recommending that clarification is needed from the BB.
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-26-2011 , 04:12 PM
"No" would be such a totally non-standard reply to the question "option?" in our game, that I would suspect he did not hear the question. He might have heard "bet your option?" or "check your option?"
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-26-2011 , 04:23 PM
"No" doesn't make definitive sense as an action, so ask him what he wants to do.
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-26-2011 , 04:52 PM
Odd answer for not a yes or no question. Clarify though. Is that a check,sir? Maybe even a nudge to use raise or fold not yes or no..
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-26-2011 , 11:46 PM
To me, "Option?" is short for "Option to raise?" so I would interpret "no" as "No, I'm just checking."

That said, I don't think I've ever heard anyone answer this question with yes or no. Usually it's "I'm good," "Run it," "Go ahead," or "I raise."
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-27-2011 , 03:01 AM
I suspect that just staring blankly for less than 2 seconds would clear this right up.

Or alternately (for us passive-aggressive types), rapping the table very deliberately and absolutely without haste burning a card should generate a "wait! I'm raising" if "no" didn't meant "check".

Honestly, I'm struggling to see how this became a problem. Like LL says, KITN to anyone trying to make the verbal "no" binding of anything.

(also, kindly ask bb to declare his action a little more definitively in the future)
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-27-2011 , 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gedanken
Honestly, I'm struggling to see how this became a problem. Like LL says, KITN to anyone trying to make the verbal "no" binding of anything.
I'll take a guess 1 or more of the players didn't want to fold their pretty speculative hands before seeing the flop.
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-27-2011 , 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanyi
I'll take a guess OP didn't want to fold his/her pretty speculative hand before seeing the flop.
... is my FYP guess
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-27-2011 , 10:35 PM
"(also, kindly ask bb to declare his action a little more definitively in the future) "

I don't think BB needs to be more definitive...someone asked him a yes/no question, and he responded, it's not his fault that the questioner asked something to which the answer would not be helpful. I would kindly ask the player who said "option?" to keep his mouth shut and let the BB act rather than asking meaningless and ambiguous questions.
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-28-2011 , 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle98
"(also, kindly ask bb to declare his action a little more definitively in the future) "

I don't think BB needs to be more definitive...someone asked him a yes/no question, and he responded.
So, as long as you answer truthfully, if potentially deceptively, you're good with that?
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-28-2011 , 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottery Larry
So, as long as you answer truthfully, if potentially deceptively, you're good with that?
Yes, because "option" is not a valid action, so a yes or no answer when faced with "option?" is meaningless. Ask a useless question, get a useless answer.

You have an option to check and you have an option to raise. So asking "option?" and hearing a yes or no answer is every bit as valid as asking "check or raise?" and hearing yes or no.

Players need to learn to keep their mouths shut and let players act. It's no different than going around the table saying "option" to every single player when it's their turn to act, as they have the option to fold, call, or raise. If the player has taken time to act and you're legitimately trying to clarify action, then clarify it by saying something useful.
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-28-2011 , 10:03 PM
seriously? now we're getting into mindless semantics. "option" is simply a prompt to the bb that it's his turn to act. You don't need to properly phrase a question to get the point across.

It's not even a complete question, and I certainly don't understand where we're getting "yes or no question".

"option" is perfectly normal and useful prod from the dealer. "no" is not a normal or useful response.
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-28-2011 , 11:21 PM
"Option." is a normal prod. It's not much different than "action's on you Joe". I think it's a reasonable prod.

"Option?" is a question, and a stupid question at that.

But we're not talking about a dealer, we're talking about some guy at the table who can't wait to let someone act and instead asks a question to which any answer is useless. "option?" is a meaningless question. It is a yes or no question, and since yes and no are both meaningless answers, it is a meaningless question.

Quote:
It's not even a complete question, and I certainly don't understand where we're getting "yes or no question".
Because it's a yes or no question as stated. It's a complete question, it's just not a clear question.

Quote:
You don't need to properly phrase a question to get the point across.
You need to properly phrase a question if you intend to rely on the answer to that question. If it was just a prod from the dealer we wouldn't be having this discussion...this discussion comes up specifically because someone has decided to turn a common prod into some kind of question which is meaningless as currently phrased. That's beside the more annoying issue that there's no reason to ask it, let the guy act, and if he doesn't realize it's his turn, tell him.

I agree with everyone saying action needs to be clear. But I blame the person asking ambiguous questions more than I blame the person who answers the actual question being asked of him.

It's the difference between "action is on you Joe" and "action is on you Joe?". turning a statement into a question matters. "yes or no" would be a ridiculous response to one, and a completely appropriate reponse to the other. punctuation matters.
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-28-2011 , 11:38 PM

Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-28-2011 , 11:43 PM
Thank you. The crappy internet clip is always the last ditch "I realize I'm wrong, but not mature enough to say it" response. "Here's a last ditch effort to try to appear edgy and cool".
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-29-2011 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle98
"Option." is a normal prod. It's not much different than "action's on you Joe". I think it's a reasonable prod.

"Option?" is a question, and a stupid question at that.

But we're not talking about a dealer, we're talking about some guy at the table who can't wait to let someone act and instead asks a question to which any answer is useless. "option?" is a meaningless question. It is a yes or no question, and since yes and no are both meaningless answers, it is a meaningless question.



Because it's a yes or no question as stated. It's a complete question, it's just not a clear question.



You need to properly phrase a question if you intend to rely on the answer to that question. If it was just a prod from the dealer we wouldn't be having this discussion...this discussion comes up specifically because someone has decided to turn a common prod into some kind of question which is meaningless as currently phrased. That's beside the more annoying issue that there's no reason to ask it, let the guy act, and if he doesn't realize it's his turn, tell him.

I agree with everyone saying action needs to be clear. But I blame the person asking ambiguous questions more than I blame the person who answers the actual question being asked of him.

It's the difference between "action is on you Joe" and "action is on you Joe?". turning a statement into a question matters. "yes or no" would be a ridiculous response to one, and a completely appropriate reponse to the other. punctuation matters.
You said what I wanted to say but couldn't articulate because of a 9th grade education.Thank you.
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-29-2011 , 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrybadbeat
You said what I wanted to say but couldn't articulate because of a 9th grade education.Thank you.
I was less impressed. "Option" means something radically different from "Option?" Wow, there are a lot of OCD players out there.

Quote:
"Option." is a normal prod. It's not much different than "action's on you Joe". I think it's a reasonable prod.

"Option?" is a question, and a stupid question at that.
I'll buy the first one. But the second could easily mean: "It is your option, Joe. What is it?"
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-30-2011 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzle98
Thank you. The crappy internet clip is always the last ditch "I realize I'm wrong, but not mature enough to say it" response. "Here's a last ditch effort to try to appear edgy and cool".
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
08-30-2011 , 02:50 PM
Maybe this has been said. BUT IMO "option?" Is not a yes or no question. (Not saying its a good or bad question) but "option?" Is asking "check or raise?" As in "which option?" Not, "do you want to exercise your option?"

Amirite?
Verbal Action on the BB Quote
09-01-2011 , 04:39 AM
KITN for me because i have AKQJ in the BB and i say either "no good" or "no" (I really can't remember) because the kid looked like he was about to run the flop. I, of course, should have just announced "raise" like a normal person, but the expecting manner in which the guy said "option?" and the expecting manner in which the dealer was looking like he was going to run it caused me to spaz.

Not important: they start to run it and i'm like OHCRAP but then hit top two pair, turn the underfull and river the overfull.
Verbal Action on the BB Quote

      
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