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Old 06-18-2021, 09:01 AM   #1
Yeodan
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What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

The other day a hand at my local home game went down like this.

Don't really know how the hand started.
On the river, there's around 300 in the pot, both players have at least 100 behind, could be 200 or even 300, we're playing a 1/1 game.

Player 1 goes all-in, player 2 snap calls.
Player 1 shows his hand, two pair.
Player 2 shows says he has a straight, shows his hand, but he actually has complete air (4 card straight, so missing one) not even a pair, just T high.

He doesn't even realize after turning over his cards and after like 5-10 seconds the dealer says, that's not a straight.

Player 1 covered player 2, takes all the money.


What would you do in this situation if you are player 1?

I'd just like to give back the amount he called on the river.
I think I might even do this in a casino against a completely unknown player.

Thoughts?


Player 1 actually handled the situation extremely poorly imo.
He went on for like 10 minutes about how bad he felt for player 2, but didn't return a dime.

I was sitting in between them, knew player 2 pretty well.
It was the first time I saw player 1, but he had been talking a lot to me and seemed friendly.
I told him I'd just give back like 100 or so, but he ignored me
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:16 AM   #2
dmccoy87
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

I did this once, I thought I had JT but I had 76 (I had JT the previous hand, was dealing the current hand, and was helping someone rebuy) and the board was a 4 liner.

The other player really wanted to give me money back but I refused. Why? Because it opens the door to angling. People could make large bluffs and then try the "oops" bs to get out of it.

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Old 06-18-2021, 10:33 AM   #3
Yeodan
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

That's why I suggested giving the river bet back, not actually half the pot.

I think we've all made these calls before, at least I have, probably several times
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:56 AM   #4
dugthefish
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

I'm probably almost never returning any money. Next time pay attention to what your hand is.

After the third time player one says he feels bad/is sorry/blah blah blah, I'm telling him to give the money back or stfu already.
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Old 06-19-2021, 11:24 AM   #5
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugthefish View Post
After the third time player one says he feels bad/is sorry/blah blah blah, I'm telling him to give the money back or stfu already.
He went for at least 5
I suggested giving some money back after the 3rd time, but was ignored
Didn't go as far as telling him to stfu, but was sure thinking it
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Old 06-19-2021, 07:15 PM   #6
Siberian13
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

Wouldn’t do a thing. It’s their job to know what they have and hopefully it’s a mistake they learn from. Giving money back means they won’t learn from their mistake as well as they should.
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Old 06-21-2021, 08:12 AM   #7
Garick
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

I've done this. Did not ask for money back. Laughed it off by telling my opponent that I had made the call as a bluff. Of course you don't get money back. Knowing your hand is part of the game.
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Old 06-21-2021, 02:44 PM   #8
grebe
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

You return nothing. You should expect nothing in return. This isnt even in the realm of a tough decision.
To whine about it (or to gloat w from the other side) would be totally out of line and uncool. Unless among friends, then you should expect to be berated.

Anecdote:

I was playing Scarney recently and had the nut low, betting all the way against someone that had the obvious high hand. I had actually accidentally fouled my hand. High hand takes the whole pot. No issue. I deserved nothing because I played incorrectly. Next hand, dealer.
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Old 06-22-2021, 05:46 AM   #9
Yeodan
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by grebe View Post
You return nothing.
I'd like to point out that I never asked what I should do.

While it's a subtle difference, I really dislike it when people in these forms tell others what they should do, in the way you're doing here.

No problem at all if you're just stating your opinion and saying you wouldn't return anything, several others have stated this as well.

But telling me I shouldn't be returning anything is not ok imo.
It's a subtle, but important, difference.


Even after reading several others say they wouldn't return anything.

I think I would still return the river call.
I'm not playing poker to take easy money from other people. I'm here because I love the game.
Returning the money in this type of spot might even be +EV long term.
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Old 06-22-2021, 12:38 PM   #10
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
I'd like to point out that I never asked what I should do.
Excuse me? you ask in the thread title. "What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?" That clearly implies that you are soliciting opinions. and in OP you say
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
What would you do in this situation if you are player 1?
....

Thoughts?
That's a pretty snippy response if all that upset you is that he said "You return nothing" instead of "I return nothing ..."

Perhaps if English is your second language you may not know that it is standard to use the second person POV when making a statement like that.

Last edited by 2pairsof2s; 06-22-2021 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 06-27-2021, 06:10 PM   #11
BigBlue56
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

Like many other home game issues, a lot 'depends'.

In my old game with friends, we generally played limit games, and calling $5 and not knowing would be laughed off and nobody would care if it was returned or not.

On occasion, I played with some acquaintances and when we played no-limit it was still small stakes. A lot would depend on the players involved, their experience playing and probably the amount the players were winning (both at the time and overall). I would never expect a refund myself, but could see a situation where I was crushing and a novice losing player made that mistake. I might offer the river refund in that situation.

As played, if I'm not involved, Player 1 gets an earful about either shutting up or refunding the money. I don't mind taking charge at home games if there players acting in unfriendly ways. It's the way home games continue.
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Old 08-06-2021, 12:22 AM   #12
albedoa
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
I'd like to point out that I never asked what I should do.

While it's a subtle difference
It's not subtlety, it's pedantry. You are asking us what we think is right, and obviously we expect that you should do the right thing too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
I suggested [he should give] the river bet back
Oh, the pot has something to say to the kettle?
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Old 08-11-2021, 08:09 AM   #13
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

I'm surprised anyone is even considering the possibility that there are ever circumstances where giving money back to a player who misread their hand is a good idea. This is a slam-dunk NO akin to the Pussycat Dolls song. Home game, casino game, online game, doesn't matter. NO.
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Old 08-11-2021, 09:48 AM   #14
Yeodan
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

What if you get the biggest whale to stop coming to your game because you didn't give him back some money after he misread his hand?

You're gonna lose a ton of money in the future because you weren't nice to the biggest whale around.
Still not a good idea?
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Old 08-12-2021, 05:30 PM   #15
Pakichu777
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

Most people, even those bad at poker, would understand a "no refund" policy. Those that don't, I wouldn't want in my game anyway.

Anyway, home poker should be about fun / 0 EV gambling IMO - not trying to make a $10/h wage.
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Old 08-13-2021, 12:30 PM   #16
AALegend
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

I have lost a couple big pots in my life when people called because they misread their hand and their Q-high or 4th pair was actually good.

Probably won like 4-5 pots when they misread their hands and called me with air or near air and my hand was good.

Considering what was already in the pot, it all evened out in the long run lol

Why should you give the money back when you had it, when the other player would almost surely not give it back if they accidentally called your bluff?
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Old 08-17-2021, 01:22 PM   #17
entirecircus
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

I'd only consider giving a refund if this was a friendly home game among friends. As you've stated in a previous thread that this isn't the case, then no refunds.
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Old 08-29-2021, 12:41 PM   #18
howbathat
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
What if you get the biggest whale to stop coming to your game because you didn't give him back some money after he misread his hand?

You're gonna lose a ton of money in the future because you weren't nice to the biggest whale around.
Still not a good idea?
I don't think the biggest whale would be too bothered by losing two BIs on a mistake. But still, I'd consider giving them back a little to be on their good side. Not something significant, maybe toss 50 their way. But it's not because I am afraid they will quit the game, more that if they want me at the table, it can help me jump ahead on waiting lists when they play. Developing a friendly relationship can also help with bringing them to other games I play at.

If it was a friend, I might also toss them something back.

For anyone else, I would not give anything to anyone but the dealer. It's unfortunate for them, but it's not really my problem.

Going on an on about it is just stupid though. I agree with you that villain should have just stfu. Even in a regular hand, you don't go talking endlessly about a pot you just won in front of villain.
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Old 08-29-2021, 08:13 PM   #19
OneCrazyDuck
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
I'd just like to give back the amount he called on the river.
I think I might even do this in a casino against a completely unknown player.

Thoughts?
That reads like you asking for thoughts on what you would do.
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Old 09-20-2021, 02:11 PM   #20
BHDonkey
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

We should just ask Armenian Mike what he would do...

This has happened to me, and I've done it to others. Unless the player is a newbie, or doesn't understand the game (happens in hilo ALOT), it's just part of the game.

What is more common is when a player misreads his hand and bets like he has it generating folds and a win.
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Old 09-25-2021, 06:09 AM   #21
Guito
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Re: What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?

In my experience, the biggest whale isn't asking for a refund. The degens/grinders on the other hand might get heated.
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