The other day a hand at my local home game went down like this.

Don't really know how the hand started.
On the river, there's around 300 in the pot, both players have at least 100 behind, could be 200 or even 300, we're playing a 1/1 game.

Player 1 goes all-in, player 2 snap calls.
Player 1 shows his hand, two pair.
Player 2 shows says he has a straight, shows his hand, but he actually has complete air (4 card straight, so missing one) not even a pair, just T high.

He doesn't even realize after turning over his cards and after like 5-10 seconds the dealer says, that's not a straight.

Player 1 covered player 2, takes all the money.


What would you do in this situation if you are player 1?

I'd just like to give back the amount he called on the river.
I think I might even do this in a casino against a completely unknown player.

Thoughts?


Player 1 actually handled the situation extremely poorly imo.
He went on for like 10 minutes about how bad he felt for player 2, but didn't return a dime.

I was sitting in between them, knew player 2 pretty well.
It was the first time I saw player 1, but he had been talking a lot to me and seemed friendly.
I told him I'd just give back like 100 or so, but he ignored me

I did this once, I thought I had JT but I had 76 (I had JT the previous hand, was dealing the current hand, and was helping someone rebuy) and the board was a 4 liner.

The other player really wanted to give me money back but I refused. Why? Because it opens the door to angling. People could make large bluffs and then try the "oops" bs to get out of it.

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That's why I suggested giving the river bet back, not actually half the pot.

I think we've all made these calls before, at least I have, probably several times

I'm probably almost never returning any money. Next time pay attention to what your hand is.

After the third time player one says he feels bad/is sorry/blah blah blah, I'm telling him to give the money back or stfu already.

He went for at least 5
I suggested giving some money back after the 3rd time, but was ignored
Didn't go as far as telling him to stfu, but was sure thinking it

Wouldn’t do a thing. It’s their job to know what they have and hopefully it’s a mistake they learn from. Giving money back means they won’t learn from their mistake as well as they should.

I've done this. Did not ask for money back. Laughed it off by telling my opponent that I had made the call as a bluff. Of course you don't get money back. Knowing your hand is part of the game.

You return nothing. You should expect nothing in return. This isnt even in the realm of a tough decision.
To whine about it (or to gloat w from the other side) would be totally out of line and uncool. Unless among friends, then you should expect to be berated.

Anecdote:

I was playing Scarney recently and had the nut low, betting all the way against someone that had the obvious high hand. I had actually accidentally fouled my hand. High hand takes the whole pot. No issue. I deserved nothing because I played incorrectly. Next hand, dealer.

I'd like to point out that I never asked what I should do.

While it's a subtle difference, I really dislike it when people in these forms tell others what they should do, in the way you're doing here.

No problem at all if you're just stating your opinion and saying you wouldn't return anything, several others have stated this as well.

But telling me I shouldn't be returning anything is not ok imo.
It's a subtle, but important, difference.


Even after reading several others say they wouldn't return anything.

I think I would still return the river call.
I'm not playing poker to take easy money from other people. I'm here because I love the game.
Returning the money in this type of spot might even be +EV long term.

Excuse me? you ask in the thread title. "What if your opponent calls a big river bet because they misread their hand?" That clearly implies that you are soliciting opinions. and in OP you say That's a pretty snippy response if all that upset you is that he said "You return nothing" instead of "I return nothing ..."

Perhaps if English is your second language you may not know that it is standard to use the second person POV when making a statement like that.

Like many other home game issues, a lot 'depends'.

In my old game with friends, we generally played limit games, and calling $5 and not knowing would be laughed off and nobody would care if it was returned or not.

On occasion, I played with some acquaintances and when we played no-limit it was still small stakes. A lot would depend on the players involved, their experience playing and probably the amount the players were winning (both at the time and overall). I would never expect a refund myself, but could see a situation where I was crushing and a novice losing player made that mistake. I might offer the river refund in that situation.

As played, if I'm not involved, Player 1 gets an earful about either shutting up or refunding the money. I don't mind taking charge at home games if there players acting in unfriendly ways. It's the way home games continue.

It's not subtlety, it's pedantry. You are asking us what we think is right, and obviously we expect that you should do the right thing too.

Oh, the pot has something to say to the kettle?

I'm surprised anyone is even considering the possibility that there are ever circumstances where giving money back to a player who misread their hand is a good idea. This is a slam-dunk NO akin to the Pussycat Dolls song. Home game, casino game, online game, doesn't matter. NO.

What if you get the biggest whale to stop coming to your game because you didn't give him back some money after he misread his hand?

You're gonna lose a ton of money in the future because you weren't nice to the biggest whale around.
Still not a good idea?

Most people, even those bad at poker, would understand a "no refund" policy. Those that don't, I wouldn't want in my game anyway.

Anyway, home poker should be about fun / 0 EV gambling IMO - not trying to make a $10/h wage.

I have lost a couple big pots in my life when people called because they misread their hand and their Q-high or 4th pair was actually good.

Probably won like 4-5 pots when they misread their hands and called me with air or near air and my hand was good.

Considering what was already in the pot, it all evened out in the long run lol

Why should you give the money back when you had it, when the other player would almost surely not give it back if they accidentally called your bluff?

I'd only consider giving a refund if this was a friendly home game among friends. As you've stated in a previous thread that this isn't the case, then no refunds.

I don't think the biggest whale would be too bothered by losing two BIs on a mistake. But still, I'd consider giving them back a little to be on their good side. Not something significant, maybe toss 50 their way. But it's not because I am afraid they will quit the game, more that if they want me at the table, it can help me jump ahead on waiting lists when they play. Developing a friendly relationship can also help with bringing them to other games I play at.

If it was a friend, I might also toss them something back.

For anyone else, I would not give anything to anyone but the dealer. It's unfortunate for them, but it's not really my problem.

Going on an on about it is just stupid though. I agree with you that villain should have just stfu. Even in a regular hand, you don't go talking endlessly about a pot you just won in front of villain.

That reads like you asking for thoughts on what you would do.

We should just ask Armenian Mike what he would do...

This has happened to me, and I've done it to others. Unless the player is a newbie, or doesn't understand the game (happens in hilo ALOT), it's just part of the game.

What is more common is when a player misreads his hand and bets like he has it generating folds and a win.

In my experience, the biggest whale isn't asking for a refund. The degens/grinders on the other hand might get heated.

When something like this happens and someone asks or expects money back, its almost always an angle shot.

Seriously!? I wouldn't do anything. I wouldn't respond at all. I'm not sorry you misread your hand, nor do I know that this is true just because you say it is. I'm 100% sure you wouldn't give me the money back if I folded. Peddle your sob stories to somebody who cares. If the dealer hesitates, I'd ask if they've declared a winner of the hand or if they intend to call the floor to clarify the rules of the game. I'd ask if bets are binding. If the other player keeps talking about it, I'd encourage them to fill up and try to win it back and say that if you do, I won't be a whiny *****.

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it...

There's a Doyle Brunson story where this used to be standard. In a 5 card stud game, if you called an opponent's last street bet but couldn't even beat their face up cards, you got the last bet back. (Because then you would have obviously misread your hand and gotten your bet back...)

Doyle is in a hand, missed his draw, but decides he wants to see what his opponent started the hand with. So Doyle calls, knowing he can't beat his opponents face up cards and takes back his last call.

Doyle's opponent got really pissed, Doyle feels guilty and decides to never angle like that again.

0$ given back, 0 ****s given.