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Old 05-31-2020, 05:35 PM   #1
Yeodan
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What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

So I was looking at the leaving early thread below here and it seemed like half the people there think it's really bad to leave early when you're up and the other half don't really care when people come and go.


I was just invited to a new home game for the first time today, I knew most of the players there from the local poker club and some from another home game I've been to.

I arrived at 19, it took a while before the game got started, think we started a bit before 20.

I went there with €260, fully prepared to lose it all.

I sat down for €150 and after an hour I had €600+ in front of me.
There was no way I was going to lose that much money after just winning it.

So I asked the person who invited me if it was ok to "hit & run" to which she responded it's not her game, so she doesn't care.

Then about 10 minutes later I had a short talk with the guy who ran the game and he told me I was free to leave when I wanted to.

So I sat back down at the table and folded mostly for another hour or so, I limped a few hands and raised once with AA, but I think it was pretty obvious I wasn't really playing anymore and that I wasn't going to give them a chance to win their money back.

At around 21:30 I said I would leave after the next orbit.
One of the other players was obviously upset about it.

Then when I stood up 10 minutes later I told them I'd come back to donate my winnings the next time and that player straight up told me there probably wasn't going to be a next time.

Two other players immediately seemed to agree, but the rest of the table didn't react too much and a few seemed to be on my side saying things like it's his money, he can do with it as he pleases.

I'm not sure if I will ever get invited to that game again.
I'm pretty sure that one player is not going to like playing with me again, maybe up to a point where they will refuse to play with me again.

The real issue is that this player is invited to all the home games in and around the city and pretty much knows everyone.


I admit I felt bad for leaving.
But my bankroll was literally that €260, I wasn't going to play for €600 ...

Could I have just asked them if I could remove €400 from the table? Or would that be worse?

What do I do the next time I'm invited to that (or another) game and I'm up 4 buy-ins?

I probably wouldn't even care if I was properly rolled, but I'm not, so I cannot afford throwing away a few BI's just like that.

I could just sit there, fold and pay the blinds the rest of the evening, but that seems even worse etiquette?

There were 8 players me & the host included.
Two new players arrived 10 minutes before I left, the host gave one of them their seat.

So it's not like anyone lost a seat because of me or anything either.


I understand it's not proper etiquette to leave like that.
But what else can I do?
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Old 05-31-2020, 06:05 PM   #2
PastaTeke
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

Wa there a scheduled end time? If so was everyone expected to play to that time?

Imo In a home game an hour is more than reasonable to play after winning a big hand. Ultimately it is the host that is going to invite you back so I would explain your situation to him.
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Old 06-01-2020, 04:05 AM   #3
Yeodan
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

Nah there was no schedule, it was the first time I came there so I didn't really know what was expected.
It was obvious they were going to keep playing for a few more hours at least though.

The host didn't seem to mind, but they didn't talk much.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:05 AM   #4
PastaTeke
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

How often is the game? Did you exchange contact info with the host? Did you get invited back?
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Old 06-03-2020, 09:41 AM   #5
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

If you can't afford to lose it then you couldn't afford to play in the first place.

The best plan would have been to make an excuse/emergency and apologise profusely for leaving early. By basically explaining that you can't afford the game, you asked about hit and running etc, you pretty much guaranteed you aren't being invited back.
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:28 AM   #6
cashed
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

Be honest with yourself: at those stakes you're a nit and you're not good for that game.

You're always going to be sweating pots that those players aren't concerned with. If you're up then you're going to lock it up like the nit that you are so that you can try to secure a win. If you're down then you're walking out the door because you're broke. It's clear from your description that you can't even manage to add anything to the game with your personality because you're so concerned about the money.

Go earn some money, put a roll together, and then you'll be able to have a good time playing poker. Right now you're just some worried nit who is too concerned with the money to be any real benefit to a home game.
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Old 06-03-2020, 07:20 PM   #7
Jah_fee
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

I agree with the last post. Why sit down if you're afraid to play once your winning?
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Old 06-04-2020, 03:39 AM   #8
Yeodan
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

I sat down willing to lose €260, not €600.
There are no smaller games so don't give me this bullshit about not playing.


Anyway, I've pretty much made up my mind about this.
I think hit & run is a dumb concept made up by losing players who can't take a loss like a man.

It's poker, if you play for money and you lose it, it's no longer yours and there is no reason anyone should give you a chance to win it back.

Hit & run is something made up by bad losers and I'm not going to care about it anymore.

The only reason I wouldn't do it, whenever possible, is to get re-invited to the games.
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Old 06-04-2020, 07:42 AM   #9
Gobbs23
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

Sadly, I pretty much have to disagree with everything you just said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
I sat down willing to lose 260, not 600.
Unless you brought 600 to the dance, there was no way you could lose 600. At the end of the night, if you were up 50 at one point but left down 50, do you say you lost 100? No, you lost 50. So, what you are meaning to say is, you got up big and wanted to keep the money. There is a huge difference.

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Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
There are no smaller games so don't give me this bullshit about not playing.
I would love to play PLO cash games, but the only game I know of is too expensive for me. So, you know what...I don't play in it. Just because there are not smaller games does not justify playing over your head. You have no right to play in a game. If it's over your head, you shouldn't play in it. There is no justification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
Anyway, I've pretty much made up my mind about this. I think hit & run is a dumb concept made up by losing players who can't take a loss like a man.

It's poker, if you play for money and you lose it, it's no longer yours and there is no reason anyone should give you a chance to win it back.

Hit & run is something made up by bad losers and I'm not going to care about it anymore.

The only reason I wouldn't do it, whenever possible, is to get re-invited to the games.
At a casino, I wouldn't completely disagree with you here, but this is a home game. There is an understanding that when you sit down to play poker at a home game, you are there to have a good time, enjoy people's company, and play poker. Sitting down for a short period of time, getting lucky, and leaving is none of those things. Sure, you want to stomp on your friends' throats and take their money while playing poker, but there is still an inherent understanding that everybody is there to have a good time, too. When somebody comes to the game and takes a bunch of money off the table early, that person went a long way into accomplishing the exact opposite of the purpose of a home game. You suck at least some of the fun out of the game.

In other words, when you care more about the money than the game, you don't belong in the game.
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Old 06-04-2020, 08:06 AM   #10
jeccross
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
I sat down willing to lose €260, not €600.
There are no smaller games so don't give me this bullshit about not playing.


Anyway, I've pretty much made up my mind about this.
I think hit & run is a dumb concept made up by losing players who can't take a loss like a man.

It's poker, if you play for money and you lose it, it's no longer yours and there is no reason anyone should give you a chance to win it back.

Hit & run is something made up by bad losers and I'm not going to care about it anymore.

The only reason I wouldn't do it, whenever possible, is to get re-invited to the games.
Oh the irony of those first two paragraphs. Live poker is about having fun for lots of people, often they are happy for you to win their money, but they expect a fair chance to get it back if you get lucky.

And yes, the last point is obvious, but that ship has probably sailed already as it's clear you don't make the game fun, unless they think you are a big enough mark that they don't care.

Last edited by jeccross; 06-04-2020 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 06-04-2020, 05:39 PM   #11
cashed
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
I sat down willing to lose 260, not 600.
There are no smaller games so don't give me this bullshit about not playing.


Anyway, I've pretty much made up my mind about this.
I think hit & run is a dumb concept made up by losing players who can't take a loss like a man.

It's poker, if you play for money and you lose it, it's no longer yours and there is no reason anyone should give you a chance to win it back.

Hit & run is something made up by bad losers and I'm not going to care about it anymore.

The only reason I wouldn't do it, whenever possible, is to get re-invited to the games.
I looked at your post history and see that you're winning something like 10c/100 at 2NL. Congratulations, it probably isn't easy to stay that committed at the microstakes.

Also, it's no wonder that you care about a few hundred bucks way more than you care about your reputation or having a good time. That sum represents something like a couple thousand hours of online play for you.

I'm glad you won and didn't destroy your bankroll, but I think you should just admit to yourself that you could have handled the situation better and you should handle the situation better in the future.
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Old 06-05-2020, 04:42 AM   #12
AALegend
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

You live in Belgium, which is a 1st world country.

Can you get a part time job, make 2000-3000 and then use it as your mini-bankroll to play live home games?

Also, next time you want to leave, don't apologize that much - its cringy. Kinda like if somebody sucked out on you and then started apologizing about the Bad Beat. Next time just say something to the effect of needing to go or say you feel bad about a player waiting to get into the game.
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Old 06-05-2020, 06:04 PM   #13
BigBlue56
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
So I was looking at the leaving early thread below here and it seemed like half the people there think it's really bad to leave early when you're up and the other half don't really care when people come and go.


I was just invited to a new home game for the first time today, I knew most of the players there from the local poker club and some from another home game I've been to.

I arrived at 19, it took a while before the game got started, think we started a bit before 20.

I went there with 260, fully prepared to lose it all.

I sat down for 150 and after an hour I had 600+ in front of me.
There was no way I was going to lose that much money after just winning it.
Pretty good run so far. A lot of it depends on what you think of your game against the other players. If I felt like the better player, and was getting my money in good most of the time, and I was grinding my way up to 4x my buy-in, I'd feel good about sticking around and not losing it.

If I was getting beat up, and got lucky to win a huge pot, I'd be leary about giving it back too. I'm sure there is a nice quote about not losing the money you don't put into the pot... but even sticking half in when ahead means that sometimes you'll lose it.

Curious to know how big the other stacks were, when you were sitting at 600+, what the stakes were, and how aggressive the play was. It's possible that you could have given some small action and not risked it all.








Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
So I asked the person who invited me if it was ok to "hit & run" to which she responded it's not her game, so she doesn't care.

Then about 10 minutes later I had a short talk with the guy who ran the game and he told me I was free to leave when I wanted to.
As I read more, I realized this wasn't a typical home game. More of an underground room, with other players ready to sit and play. You were brought there to play, and you played. Assuming you were discreet and serious in your asking, it was a good way to go.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
So I sat back down at the table and folded mostly for another hour or so, I limped a few hands and raised once with AA, but I think it was pretty obvious I wasn't really playing anymore and that I wasn't going to give them a chance to win their money back.

At around 21:30 I said I would leave after the next orbit.
One of the other players was obviously upset about it.
Because you were being replaced, I don't have a problem with getting up and leaving. Particularly when you aren't giving much action. They are sore losers and will have to get over it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
Then when I stood up 10 minutes later I told them I'd come back to donate my winnings the next time and that player straight up told me there probably wasn't going to be a next time.

Two other players immediately seemed to agree, but the rest of the table didn't react too much and a few seemed to be on my side saying things like it's his money, he can do with it as he pleases.
If the host has no problem, then you'll get the invite back. I'm sure there was more whining after you left. Did the person who invited you stick around?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
I'm not sure if I will ever get invited to that game again.
I'm pretty sure that one player is not going to like playing with me again, maybe up to a point where they will refuse to play with me again.

The real issue is that this player is invited to all the home games in and around the city and pretty much knows everyone.
Then they probably know the player is a sore loser and shouldn't be listened to. Unless they thought you were much better, they should welcome you back for a shot at your money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
I admit I felt bad for leaving.
But my bankroll was literally that 260, I wasn't going to play for 600 ...

Could I have just asked them if I could remove 400 from the table? Or would that be worse?

What do I do the next time I'm invited to that (or another) game and I'm up 4 buy-ins?
If the game was going to keep going, it wasn't going to matter when you left.
Having your entire bankroll in your pocket isn't the best plan, but that's been addressed from others. Having it all on the table at once is worse.

Removing money from the table is called going south and is generally prohibited. Given the choice of watching you leave with 600, or stay with 200 might have swayed some allow it.

I'm ticked when someone wins a huge pot and gets up (casino). Of the limited number of times I've been up 4+ buy-ins, I've always considered the other stacks. I might be physically sick if I lost a hand where i put in 4+ buy-ins, so I don't plan to do that anytime soon. If there is another stack north of 2+ BI, then I'm careful not to tangle with them. I've lost 2BI chunks, and while not fun, it wasn't sickening. You can play your game, and just be careful when going against another monster stack.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
I probably wouldn't even care if I was properly rolled, but I'm not, so I cannot afford throwing away a few BI's just like that.

I could just sit there, fold and pay the blinds the rest of the evening, but that seems even worse etiquette?

There were 8 players me & the host included.
Two new players arrived 10 minutes before I left, the host gave one of them their seat.

So it's not like anyone lost a seat because of me or anything either.


I understand it's not proper etiquette to leave like that.
But what else can I do?
I would need a really good reason to sit and fold all night, instead of getting up. With new players ready to be seated, it's better that you leave.

As this seems more cardroom and less home game, I'd consider greasing the wheels that matter. If you are invited back, bring the host a gift. A nice bottle of liquor, handful of good cigars, etc. That will spread faster among the hosts and people that matter.
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Old 06-08-2020, 03:54 AM   #14
Yeodan
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cashed View Post
I looked at your post history and see that you're winning something like 10c/100 at 2NL. Congratulations, it probably isn't easy to stay that committed at the microstakes.

Also, it's no wonder that you care about a few hundred bucks way more than you care about your reputation or having a good time. That sum represents something like a couple thousand hours of online play for you.

I'm glad you won and didn't destroy your bankroll, but I think you should just admit to yourself that you could have handled the situation better and you should handle the situation better in the future.
I play online to study, not to make money.
Also playing zoom, I could be winning much more on reg tables, but don't enjoy playing them.

I'm just saving up money and taking shots when I have some, to anyone saying this is poor bankroll management, please show me a different way to build my bankroll.
I'm just playing when I can with the money I can spare, I'm building experience and if I'm lucky I'm building up a bankroll.
If I lose, I just save up again and take another shot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBlue56 View Post
As this seems more cardroom and less home game, I'd consider greasing the wheels that matter. If you are invited back, bring the host a gift. A nice bottle of liquor, handful of good cigars, etc. That will spread faster among the hosts and people that matter.
Definitely just a home game.
There were no people waiting.
When the two new players arrived, that's when I announced I was quitting after the next round.

Haven't been invited back so far, but I haven't asked either.
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Old 06-08-2020, 07:00 AM   #15
Gobbs23
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
I'm just saving up money and taking shots when I have some, to anyone saying this is poor bankroll management, please show me a different way to build my bankroll.
Have you seen Rounders?
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Old 06-08-2020, 09:02 AM   #16
jeccross
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Re: What to do when you're way up and cannot afford to lose it again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeodan View Post
I'm just saving up money and taking shots when I have some, to anyone saying this is poor bankroll management, please show me a different way to build my bankroll.
I'm just playing when I can with the money I can spare, I'm building experience and if I'm lucky I'm building up a bankroll.
If you want to do that then fine, the thing that is inconsistent here is that you were willing to lose the original 260, but not the profit? Whatever happened you couldn't have lost more than the original 260 that went in, so nothing really changed when you got lucky early in the session.

If you want to build experience, then leaving early doesn't achieve that. If having that amount of money on the table affects your game so much that you can't play on, then you either need to not play those games, or you need to keep playing to get comfortable with the stakes.
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