not sure if this belongs here, if it doesn't a mod can feel free to move it

of all the pots i've played in my life, the one that sticks with me the most isn't even top 100 in dollar size and happened almost two decades ago

setting: underground club, players self deal so any disagreements are usually between players - at times others weigh in but people mostly don't want to get involved

stakes: super deep 1/2 game, average buyin about 1k and towards end of night average stack could be about 1k+ bb, plays like 5/10 but a nit set it up this way to exploit his tendency to fold pre cheaply - actually admire that vision he had, total genius move and also made whales feel more comfortable playing a new game "since it's only 1-2" but they'd buy in for thousands because when you're a whale you don't want to be shortstacking when the table is deep

Hero: A7o in the BB, effective stacks about 1k bb

Villian: covers hero, fellow pro on the button, we don't hang out one on one but spend lots of time together off the felt each week in groups as small as four, we're in the same social circles and I consider him a friend, someone i'd invite over to my house parties etc etc - he's french and more of a disciplined player than I - we don't soft play each other but obviously neither would be here facing off if not for the whales at the table

the whales fold, villain raises to 3bb, sb folds and I flat. everyone else gets up to take a cigarette break while the two of us play

pot 7bb

TTT flop

check call 5bb

pot 17bb

turn A

check, check

river A

i lead for 15bb, villain appears to have verbally called, i table my hand

villain says "why did you do that I haven't acted yet"

meanwhile, we're discussing whether or not his actions indicated anything and he jams his entire stack into the pot, over 1k bbs into a pot of 32bb

i thought he was joking at first but he just switched into hoodie up, stare at felt silently mode - i call over some others from the other table for a ruling and it's my word against his so nobody is getting involved but he gets the benefit of doubt given how brazen it would be to say call and then pretend like you didn't - while I'm convinced he did say call, I too see the logic in that argument and agree there's a possibility i confused someone at another table speaking or whatever

but meanwhile, what was a very small pot played against someone I'm not interested in playing for stacks against is suddenly a pot of real significance played out like a scene from the princess bride

others are now returning to the table and i'm being pressured to either call or fold

hero?

Hero made a mistake and acted out of turn. Maybe. Perhaps villain is doing an angle shoot. Who can really say?

Bottom line, hero can't do anything but fold. Risking $1,000+ to win / protect a $60 pot is a poor idea.

Given the scale of the game, Hero is getting a cheap lesson. Learn what can be learn and move on. This doesn't have to be anything to lose sleep over. Unless Hero gets tilted and stacks off vs quads.

Also, poker decision aside, is this someone you would remain friends with after the hand regardless of outcome

Did he say call or no

**** no, that dude becomes froggy non grata as far as im concerned.

That's an angle shoot, albeit an elaborate one.

And for 60 bucks? Why? Unless you have the quads you don't call.



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Yeah, money wise this is not even worth the sweat. it's a kinda sad but trivial fold. (At the same time he never has a T here. He raises to 300 if he does. but I still ain't calling.)

But depending on how certain I was of his angleshot, that would depend on how non grata his persona became.

results?

result was I tank folded but really really wanted to call, probably would have had it been a few hundred bbs, in fact, i'm quite certain i would have because at this point it felt like a personal insult to my honor or something, not quite sure how to explain it

he mucked his cards but by now there was a group from the other table watching and one of the floozies reached into the muck and flipped his hand over (lol underground games) and flipped over

was never friends with that guy again, totally dismantled the social group we were both in, i sometimes wonder if i overreacted

i mentioned this thread in the pen chat thread and there was a bunch of feedback on it back there as well if people are curious but they mostly felt fold was correct, guy was in the wrong etc

I'm interested in what people thought was wrong about it. Was it wrong because you are supposed to be friends (which shouldn't be the case, because we know that you are not supposed to treat friends differently at the table), or because after you tabled your hand he shoved?

Because, given that he had quads, I find it hard to believe that he did say "call". Because why would he have done that? Do you know anyone who would just call there with quads? Only the nittiest of the nitty. You didn't 3-bet preflop, so having pocket aces is even more unlikely than there just being 1 combo. Calling would have been one of the worst plays ever, so he probably didn't do it.

On the other hand, if we assume he didn't say "call", then you turning over your hand and trying to end it right there is denying him an opportunity to raise. I'm sure you thought you heard it, and therefore it was an honest mistake. Nonetheless, I don't see how you can blame him for wanting to continue with the hand.

This is a pretty legit point. At the same time, I know if I was V and this ever happened to me, I would turn my cards over after the fold, and make this exact point myself. "Hey buddy, I'm NEVER calling in this spot."

Agreed, surprised I never reasoned it like this, he's never just calling here and my action put an artificial cap on the action.

However, I still feel like he exploited the situation. It was a small pot, it would remain a small pot had I simply not exposed my hand and called his standard sized raise. Maybe he gets another 50bb off me, maybe another 100? But he's never putting me on an ace until I show it. Before then he's trying to figure what's the most I'd call if I were assuming a chop and that number is far less than 1kbb.

This is how I felt too. If I'm in his shoes I'll be poking fun at the situation. I understand raising but to go for such an absurd size with the information that I am so nutted felt really douchey. Had he put in a small raise is have snap called and it'd be something we'd joke about over beers. Even had he still did that 1kbb raise and then showed me the T when I folded that would have gained him a massive amount of goodwill in the situation. But he opted to muck, that was the straw that broke the camels back for me.

I quoted most of comments on it from the chat thread. I'm also aware it's a chat thread so people are naturally inclined to make me feel better about it yadda yadda yadda

I'm sure there was more, just quickly went through multiquoting and sure I missed some

How it started:
How it ended

Everyone ( or most) seems to think it wasn't an angle, it was.

The freezeout act seals it for me.


What you did afterwards isn't nearly as important as this fact.

You may have made a mistake about what you heard him say, he took advantage either way.

He figured your ego would make you call because you don't want to look embarrassed.

So he really sized you up as a weak player.

He could have raised to 200 real easy and probably got a call, and you wouldn't be wondering.

Dummy got greedy.

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Three things here

1st The clown that turned over the hand should be banned after getting a kick in the nuts.

2nd The villian had quads, no way he was calling, he is going to raise, no angle there. Did you wait for him to put his chips in for the call? You should of, would of prevent the problems.

3rd The clown that turned over the hand should be banned after getting another kick in the nuts.

sounds exactly like the kind of post you'd expect from someone who regged in 2005 and in 2020 is starting threads asking how to make side pots, what is a string bet and looking for cool sunglass recs for his 1-2 home game

Hey just giving my opinion, on what it looks like to me and almost everyone else that commented. Really, what the guy had didn't count in the final decsion . You bet, thought you heard him call and you tabled your hand. Really, you should of waited for him to put his chips in and none of this would of happened.

Really, you have to dig thru my past posts and distort them to make me look bad/discredit me? I would of thought you would of responded with more information or another point of view. Anyways, the villian made a mistake in my opinion pushing 1K, I would of waited and made a value bet to pay off my quads.

[PHP]looking for cool sunglass recs for his 1-2 home game[/PHP] Wrong, for casino play

[PHP] what is a string bet[/PHP] Wrong, border line string bet situation, in my neck of the woods some games call it a string bet, I disagree, curious what others think.

for what it's worth, i saw your absurd comment and reg date and immediately figured you were someone i knew from back in the day, maybe even the frenchman himself - because them personally knowing me could be the only logical explanation for such a post where they wanted to poke fun with me, so i clicked your profile and was literally about to send a pm like "hey man are you x, it's been forever how are you"

i then see what you actually post here, realize there's absolutely no way we know each other and you're clearly not happy in life and looking for places to lash out and make yourself feel better

my suggestion is to work on yourself, because these temporary bandaids aren't helping you and it's just embarassing yourself and letting your sadness snowball to a point where idiotic comments like this to total strangers isn't going to stem the tide

gl on your personal journey sir

You are really weird man, seriously.