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Old 04-05-2018, 10:43 PM   #1
davis422
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Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

Just moved to texas away from my normal live casino card room. Gambling is illegal in Texas, but they have found a way around the laws by not charging a rake. But instead charging a seat rental fee and a membership fee..

So I haven't check out the games yet because Im afraid that its going to mess up my tried and true strategy. I normally play pretty tight until I get a decent read on the table, but I'm afraid paying 15 dollars per 30 minutes is going to chip away at my roll faster than normal.

Just curious what anybody else thinks. Would you rather play in a game with a seat rental and no rake? Maybe someone could tell me some math equation that will put my mind at ease entering these games.

Stakes will be 2/5 NL
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Old 04-06-2018, 12:01 AM   #2
Bene Gesserit
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

$15 per 30 minutes sounds more like a timed rake to me. I thought most seat rental charges were for a full session. Maybe you are right , but also maybe your information is a bit off. Maybe check it out closer as to how they manage their rates /charges.
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Old 04-06-2018, 02:14 AM   #3
Tutejszy
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

assuming 33hands/hour (which is optimistic), this is 18bb/100, which is big, but beatable when the table is soft. Timed rake tends to be muuuch better for the players than normal, although in this case this is for sure on the big side. Last time I played with timed rake it was 2,5bb/hour.
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Old 04-06-2018, 04:53 AM   #4
ThisKid$Tough
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

People think rake is the be-all end-all of poker game legality (see Molly's game), it isn't. Time charge is not some loop hole that magically redefines the game as rake free. Your game is underground, and very illegal.

That said, this time charge is a lot for a 2/5 game. Assuming the standard 30 hands per hour in a live game, 10 handed... the time charge would amount to $300 per hour. Equivalent rake would be $10/hand, every hand.

Since the game is illegal either way, you should prefer a 10% rake up to $5 per hand, which is the standard casino rate. I know this might be tough to find in illegal home games though.
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Old 04-06-2018, 05:01 AM   #5
ThisKid$Tough
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

For comparison, the last time I paid a time charge, I think it was $6 or $7 per half hour at Bellagio, playing 20/40 O/8. Same goes for 20/40 Limit Holdem.
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Old 04-06-2018, 12:00 PM   #6
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

I would find another game.
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Old 04-06-2018, 01:21 PM   #7
notyoursmine
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

Quote:
Originally Posted by davis422 View Post
Just moved to texas away from my normal live casino card room. Gambling is illegal in Texas, but they have found a way around the laws by not charging a rake. But instead charging a seat rental fee and a membership fee..

So I haven't check out the games yet because Im afraid that its going to mess up my tried and true strategy. I normally play pretty tight until I get a decent read on the table, but I'm afraid paying 15 dollars per 30 minutes is going to chip away at my roll faster than normal.

Just curious what anybody else thinks. Would you rather play in a game with a seat rental and no rake? Maybe someone could tell me some math equation that will put my mind at ease entering these games.

Stakes will be 2/5 NL
Where do you live in Texas? It's a big state.

I live in Houston, so I'll tell you about that for me. I too am a pretty tight player in the beginning of my game, and worried about this exact thing. I can tell you honestly paying time rake is almost the same as me driving to Lake Charles to play. (There are 3 clubs within 3 miles of my house.) And definitely cheaper than playing in the underground rooms around here which can run you 10%+ of the pot.

The issue around here, is the market is so saturated now with rooms, some places can't keep up with the competition. With more continuing to open.

There are very few 2/5 NL games here, mostly 1/3 with match the stack buy ins. (unless a new table opens) These games play like 2/5, in terms of betting, etc.

Read the thread titled "Membership Clubs in Tx", lots of info.
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Old 04-06-2018, 03:18 PM   #8
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

There are MANY of the grey-market rooms charging less than $15 per half-hour on the seat rental fees. Post Oak was one of the highest I was aware of at $7.50 per half-hour (and, at least for a while, if you were able to get in at, say, 20 minutes past the hour, you could actually get about 40 minutes on that first one- this may have changed since I have not played there in quite some time).

Play, at least in the Houston games, tended to be loose. There has not been much of a reason to nit it up. It often had the same dynamics at POPC as one would see at Harrahs NOLA. Cannot speak to Lake Charles since I have only played there a few times, but am guessing it is much the same, with players looking to get their gamble on.

To the fundamental question of whether it is beatable, absolutely it is. But you will be missing out on money most nights if you just sit and nut peddle...

Quite honestly, I found POPC to be even looser than the games I played at the Las Vegas Golden Nugget the past few mornings while I was out there. Granted, it was uncapped $1/2 instead of $2/5, but loose is loose. The Wednesday table (morning) was tighter than the Thursday morning table, but both were good. But neither compared to several sessions I have had at POPC. And yes, POPC is my primary reference for the grey-market games in Houston since that was where most of my play has been...
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:13 AM   #9
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

Yeah, I don't think any of these rooms is charging $15 per half-hour. I'm guessing that you read it wrong, and it's $15/hour, or $7.50 per half.

If it really is $15/down, find another game. They are pretty much all listed in this thread.

That is basically the same a normal rake, though everyone pays an equal share, instead of the donks paying more of it because they play more hands. The advantage though, is that this money doesn't come off the table, but out of people's pockets. That keeps a lot more money on the table for you to win. I agree that the 1/3 I played in Houston played a lot more like a loose 2/5, given the stack depth and the fact that chips didn't keep disappearing down the rake hole.

Last edited by Garick; 04-07-2018 at 10:19 AM. Reason: Added link to the Texas "legal" rooms thread
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Old 04-08-2018, 05:32 PM   #10
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

Do people really pay time charges out of their pockets? Any time I have played time charge games at legitimate casinos everyone paid from their stacks.
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Old 04-09-2018, 09:19 AM   #11
Garick
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

Not allowed in Texas. Also can't tip off your stack. Has to be a firewall between the game and the club's/dealer's profits to make the legal claim that they aren't making money off the wagering, just off providing the game
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Old 04-11-2018, 04:18 PM   #12
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

From what I see in the Austin card rooms the rake is between $8 - 10 per hour with a daily, monthly or annual club membership fee.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:57 PM   #13
pokermon!
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
Do people really pay time charges out of their pockets? Any time I have played time charge games at legitimate casinos everyone paid from their stacks.
Yes, it's a bit of an annoyance but you get used to it. Places will allow you to purchase time on a credit card too.

I'm just happy that I have a places to play within a short drive that dont rake a crap ton of money off the table
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Old 10-01-2018, 03:26 PM   #14
drbeechwood
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Re: Texas Cardroom with No Rake + Hourly Seat Rental -Thoughts? Strategies??

I don't think that anyone has mentioned in this thread that El Paso now has at least two new card rooms. I've been to House of Kings on East Gateway. Usually they get 2-3 tables of 1-2, sometimes they have Omaha or round of each.
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