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Old 04-14-2021, 03:12 PM   #1
DavidNB
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showdown question

Just curious what you guys think here. I'm not looking for the one person that answers it a certain way, rather general opinion. Tournament is not casino or card room, rather a local for profit multi table game, self dealt.

Player A often does this on showdown.

On the river, Player A bets T500, Player B calls. Player A then asks B, something like "You got two pair " without tabling his hand? Player B says yes, Player A mucks his hand, Player B tables his.

I find this very silly really. I'm not in the hand , if I was B, I guess my answer would of been, I have the winning hand unless you table yours ( with a smile).

IF a player did this once in a blue moon I would shrug my shoulders over it. This guy does it every time he is first to show.

So do you speak up at the game when he does this?
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Old 04-14-2021, 07:33 PM   #2
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Re: showdown question

If I am the one in the hand, I may or may not ask him to show. I usually just turn over my hand if I think I have a winner. If I'm not in the hand, I'm not going to say anything, as long as it doesn't slow the game down.

If he says "Do you have two pair" and I say yes - and then he turns over something better, I'm never going to show again until he shows his hand. But, in general, if you force a player to show his hand, it is always possible that he'll turn over a winner that he didn't think was a winner. I'm always happy to have my opponent muck - it means I win the pot.
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Old 04-14-2021, 08:05 PM   #3
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Re: showdown question

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Originally Posted by VBAces View Post
If I am the one in the hand, I may or may not ask him to show. I usually just turn over my hand if I think I have a winner. If I'm not in the hand, I'm not going to say anything, as long as it doesn't slow the game down.

If he says "Do you have two pair" and I say yes - and then he turns over something better, I'm never going to show again until he shows his hand. But, in general, if you force a player to show his hand, it is always possible that he'll turn over a winner that he didn't think was a winner. I'm always happy to have my opponent muck - it means I win the pot.
Thats makes alot sense really, thanks. No sense to shoot yourself in the foot getting another player to show. If it helps any, the guy never shows a better hand then what he asks. He is just avoiding showing a losing hand.
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Old 04-15-2021, 06:22 AM   #4
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Re: showdown question

This annoys me. If you bet and I called, I will generally just wait for you to show or muck. If you ask what I have, all you're getting is a shrug.

If im not in the hand (I am the host), I will usually let them play their little games. Until two players get into that little Mexican showdown where no one wants to show first, then I'll chastise them a bit about "let's get to the next hand".
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Old 04-15-2021, 10:11 AM   #5
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Re: showdown question

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Originally Posted by DavidNB View Post
Player A often does this on showdown.

On the river, Player A bets T500, Player B calls. Player A then asks B, something like "You got two pair " without tabling his hand? Player B says yes, Player A mucks his hand, Player B tables his.
I see no issue with this. Unless you think he is dumping chips to B, I would definitely not stop him from mucking his hand. There is no harm here, let him be silly.
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Old 04-15-2021, 11:34 AM   #6
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Re: showdown question

The rules give the other person in showdown the right to see his opponent’s cards even if he doesn’t want to show. But only the other person in showdown can ask to see them if he wants to. For some reason, a lot of people view asking for them to show as a breach of poker etiquette.

Basic poker rule is the last person to initiate a bet is obliged to show. So you really shouldn’t have many, if any, Mexican stand-off type situations if everyone is following the rules.

In fact, I bet reiterating these rules at the beginning of the game will help with your situation.
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Old 04-15-2021, 07:31 PM   #7
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Re: showdown question

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Originally Posted by dugthefish View Post
This annoys me. If you bet and I called, I will generally just wait for you to show or muck. If you ask what I have, all you're getting is a shrug.

If im not in the hand (I am the host), I will usually let them play their little games. Until two players get into that little Mexican showdown where no one wants to show first, then I'll chastise them a bit about "let's get to the next hand".
It is annoying isn't it. I guess if I'm not in the hand I shouldn't raise objections , not unless they are in the Mexican staredown. The guy does it every hand where he is first in line to show,
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Old 04-15-2021, 07:33 PM   #8
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Re: showdown question

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Originally Posted by dugthefish View Post
This annoys me. If you bet and I called, I will generally just wait for you to show or muck. If you ask what I have, all you're getting is a shrug.

If im not in the hand (I am the host), I will usually let them play their little games. Until two players get into that little Mexican showdown where no one wants to show first, then I'll chastise them a bit about "let's get to the next hand".
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Originally Posted by grebe View Post
I see no issue with this. Unless you think he is dumping chips to B, I would definitely not stop him from mucking his hand. There is no harm here, let him be silly.
No he isn't dumping chips, he does this alot with other players. Just annoying when it happens. Yes I see where its better just to let him muck and be happy I get the pot.
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Old 04-15-2021, 07:38 PM   #9
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Re: showdown question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
The rules give the other person in showdown the right to see his opponent’s cards even if he doesn’t want to show. But only the other person in showdown can ask to see them if he wants to. For some reason, a lot of people view asking for them to show as a breach of poker etiquette.

Basic poker rule is the last person to initiate a bet is obliged to show. So you really shouldn’t have many, if any, Mexican stand-off type situations if everyone is following the rules.

In fact, I bet reiterating these rules at the beginning of the game will help with your situation.
I know he is required to show first, its just annoying when he does this everytime. he is always avoiding to show his hand. If I'm not in the hand, I 'll stay out of it, unless they are dragging it out. Like others have mentioned, let him play his silly games.
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Old 04-16-2021, 10:54 AM   #10
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Re: showdown question

For sure, rules are there to protect the game and all that, but it's important to remember that poker is also supposed to be fun. People want to stuff like this without having the rulebook shoved down their throat. If it's just annoying to you and doesnt really hurt the game, let it go.

Perfect example: fish guy shows his hand to his neighbor before folding. Obviously, this is a rules violation giving info to one player and not the rest (show one show all). However, pointing this out is every time makes the game less fun and does absolutely no help.

Let people have fun....until it effects the game.
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Old 04-18-2021, 02:13 PM   #11
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Re: showdown question

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Originally Posted by grebe View Post
For sure, rules are there to protect the game and all that, but it's important to remember that poker is also supposed to be fun. People want to stuff like this without having the rulebook shoved down their throat. If it's just annoying to you and doesnt really hurt the game, let it go.

Perfect example: fish guy shows his hand to his neighbor before folding. Obviously, this is a rules violation giving info to one player and not the rest (show one show all). However, pointing this out is every time makes the game less fun and does absolutely no help.

Let people have fun....until it effects the game.
Very good points. Yes, when I'm not in the hand, despite finding it annoying, I will not speak up. If they get into a mexican stand off, that would be different.
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Old 04-27-2021, 01:44 PM   #12
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Re: showdown question

This i probably a friendly game with not so high stakes? Otherwise it could get unconfortable when someone angleshoots this and calls with air only to answer "Yes" and take down the pot because the other player has mucked. And when the first player mucks I think the only remaining player gets the pot without even having to show.
If this player plays in many places and does this it is very probably that somewhere this will happen.
If it is annoying other players, maybe do it in a very small pot as a lesson...
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Old 04-29-2021, 06:10 PM   #13
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Re: showdown question

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Originally Posted by degenplayer View Post
This i probably a friendly game with not so high stakes? Otherwise it could get unconfortable when someone angleshoots this and calls with air only to answer "Yes" and take down the pot because the other player has mucked. And when the first player mucks I think the only remaining player gets the pot without even having to show.
If this player plays in many places and does this it is very probably that somewhere this will happen.
If it is annoying other players, maybe do it in a very small pot as a lesson...
Annoying but as long as its quick between the players for the showdown, I'll let it ride. Any Mexican stand offs start, I'll speak up. If he is against me, I'll gladly take the pot and show my hand when he mucks. Like someone else commented, be happy to rake in the pot. If by some chance I want to see the hand, when he asks If I have two pair, I'll tell him I called him, his turn to show.

Yes it is smaller stakes, $60 buyin
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Old 06-27-2021, 06:39 PM   #14
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Re: showdown question

Annoying for sure. If he's an always does this player and I'm not in the hand, I'm asking to see his cards. Might take a while to get a ruling the first time, but after that the expectation should be there.

If I'm in the hand, I'm probably going with "show or muck" for this player. Although in general I will table out of turn if I the player says they missed. I expect the same courtesy when I bluff and get called.

It's very poor etiquette to delay the game, even more so in a tourney.
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