I have to agree, here. This:

... is a bit over the top and makes you, pfap, look bad, imo.

This is really being overthought. Just a direct, but diplomatic 5-10 minute conversation and then if the behavior continues, he knew the consequences.

This is really kinda hard to describe, I'm realizing. His verbal style is combative. But that's really not all of it.

There's people from the midwest, who if they don't have anything nice to say, won't say anything. There's people from the west coast, who if they don't have anything nice to say, will smile to your face and talk about you behind your back. And there's people from the east coast, who if they don't have anything nice to say, will say it to your face. For how much I'm a California boy I've spent nearly half my life on the east coast and there's a little New Yorker in me ready to go at any time. People who "get all up in your face"... I really appreciate that, appreciate their directness, etc.

So at first blush he just seems blunt, but then the sands shift under your feet.


I'll tell him he needs to ante, he'll tell me I'm stealing his chips.

I'll ask him to act on his turn, and he'll ask why I don't like him any more.

He'll make a joke about his ethnicity, if I laugh he'll call me out as a bigot.

I'll tell him its his turn to deal, he'll tell me I'm arrogant and uncaring.

After being told its his turn he'll ask what the action is, then he'll play with his chips for a minute or so, then turn around and look at the game clock for about 15 seconds, then spot someone at the other table not in the hand and start a conversation with them about how he's being persecuted for not acting fast enough. At this point everyone at his table will shout his name and he will make a long belabored apology to the person at the other table that he can't continue the conversation. Then he'll limp.


"Getting on him" as you suggest does serve to create some awareness in him apparently, but practically it only serves as something else to further delay the game and bring him more attention.

Is this a tactic on his part to get everyone on tilt? How is he away from the table? Or do you ever see him socially other than poker?

I came into this thread too late to offer any practical advice, pfap, but FWIW:

This guy sounds like an attention whore who happens to be a decent player. Laying down the law as you've done sounds like an appropriate step, but I suspect you're just prolonging the inevitable.

Good luck, and I hope this works out in your game's best interest.

Okay, if this is further clarification of how he comports himself at the table the rest of the folks in OPs game should stand up and be counted. This turd has got to go. Don't leave it to the organizer, several of the regulars should volunteer to let this guy know he's out of the group - forever.

Wow.

Not my property. We've have the sword of damocles hanging over our head ever since the beginning, and we were even kicked out in '09. This past year has been a gift, but now they're finally converting the space for other uses.

We'll see. Tournaments were always a loss-leader, as I usually make bank in the cash games. The League was initially a way for me to get others to back me in the WSOP, but now all those others got good, and it's harder for me to win. Far too much effort without a support staff, and it's time I'm not playing cash games. Basically I'm giving up a day's income in order to do more work. They're fun, but not THAT fun.

I think the problem is because I never took it personally enough. There have been signs through the years, but despite my asking people to come to me with problems, most only made little passing hints here and there. I brushed it off as, "He's just goofy, doesn't mean it personally." It's a MTT, so I'll sometimes not even be at the same table with someone for months, and not recognize the patterns. Until recently, nobody mentioned him specifically as the reason for no longer playing, but now that that's been happening, I can more easily connect all the dots.

That's his problem, not mine. Stepping away from the situation, I realize how much he has been disrespecting everything about the game for quite a long time, and brushing off my attempts to discuss the behavior directly.

I know myself, and I know if I don't over-think it ahead of time, the conversation will not be 5-10 minutes. And if I didn't have the specific situation of this league, I wouldn't care as much about being fair.

If you've never dealt with a personality disordered person before, it's difficult to realize how easy it is to get twisted around once you're enmeshed with them.

It could be, which means it's even crappier on his part than just being oblivious.

I've only hung out with him socially a couple of times, but we have been friendly. My previous attempts to discuss his personality conflicts with others have not gone well.

I am. Since I had no provision for "stay in line or you're out" in the league rules, it would be really really crapy for me to just kick out the league leader. It would destroy any respect anybody else has left for me.

My group, my responsibility. I think I'm handling it well enough. I've had long conversations with him the past, and I've laid out "STOP DOING THIS" rules to the "group" before (but aimed a lot at him). None of it worked, and this last game he was worse than I've ever seen him.

Hard, solid boundaries. That's the only way. I will not engage. He's had more than enough chances. His response has always been to act persecuted, rather than recognize and correct the behavior.

Bullet in the brain pan.

If you had kids, this would have been solved a long time ago.... because you would have handled his crap in the same way as any other attention-whoring PITA child.

Oh well. GL and just keep your eyes on the prize.... the end of the league's season and his final game.

Squish!

That's exactly right.

Interestingly, my moment of revelation that I was dealing with a small child (and therefore could detach) was the evening after an afternoon working with small children.

It seems to have worked. His recent email was very short, accepting of the situation, and promising model behavior. No excuses, no defelction, no persecution, no blame.

Thank you to all who "get" it. To those who don't, consider yourselves lucky.

Clear, solid, unwavering boundaries. No emotion, nothing on which to grab.

I'm very sad that it's come to this, and I feel awful having to treat someone this way, but it is what it is.

Sadly, I have to say that the email, of course, means nothing.

Actions speak louder..... gl, hopefully he straightens up.

Nice work. My guess is that you are going to have your hands full after the first hour of the next tourney night, but there is a snowball's chance in hell that he'll keep it together for an evening... No way he behaves for two nights. GL & let us know how it goes..

The "I understand", repeat position line is gold---Ty, Ty, Ty.

BTW- The "I understand" line is exactly what I do with my 3 year old. It works wonders---"I'm sorry you are upset about not getting dessert, I get upset when I don't get dessert too....etc".

Yep, this isn't over. What you'll find is if it was this easy for a person with these kinds of personality issues to just stop and be socially adept, it would have happened a long time ago. A short email is easy, a behavior change after a lifetime of bad conduct not so much. But I do wish you good luck and respect the thoughtful conduct you've displayed with this guy.

Joining the good luck wishes. Just glad I dont have to deal with this crap.

This situation is a bummer. We have had it in my home game on a few occasions. In the end, we had to let the player(s) know they were not invited back. It was tough to tell a friend/relative that their behavior was unacceptable and that since they could not seem to control it, other players no longer wanted to play if that person was coming.
Once it was done though, the entire group attitude improved, the game flowed much more smoothly, and other players knew that some behaviors would not be tolerated.
The fun and spirit of the game were protected and the regulars rejoiced.

How'd it go pfap?

No game 'til March 3.

"Appeal to his ego"? This is problematic. You need to beat his ego down and put it in its place. Tell him to act his age, ffs.

What a diva.

divas need to go elsewhere,especially if no one enjoys their style of play

i have one at home,keeps raping everyone with his total BS offsuited broadways running like jesus X god,and keeps complaining when he misses like 1 flop with AJ+,and everyone is getting upset just because of that kind of attitude

so i won't imagine with your diva,i guess there would be fights every now and then haha

srsly tell the dooche to gtfo

I've read through the entire thread and I'm surprised no one has suggested this yet:

Move all of your league games to pokerstars home games. This will solve all of your problems immediately:

1) Blinds and antes are automatically taken care of.
2) If he doesn't act in time, he gets timed out and folded.
3) If he whines and it bothers you, you can just block the chat.
4) If he wants to know what the action is, all he has to do is look at the screen and look at the buttons on the bottom right and he'll know what his options are.

Best of all, it is all handled by the software so there is nothing personal. You don't need to worry about any of your hosting duties except tallying the points. During the tourney, you can just concentrate on playing.

But then they would miss out on the camaraderie of live poker.

Uh.

i am also surprised no1 has suggested this. Uprooting a game that has been going for a good period of time, where everyone knows each other, and playing it online so some jackass can post his blinds on time and know what the bet is when its his turn.....Clearly the best option and least inconvenient choice for all parties.

Of course, I am kidding. I enjoying playing live quite a bit more than playing online. But, it is much more convenient. Speeds up the game, and it saves the time you have to spend getting there, finding parking and getting back home.
The cash game, of course, would still be live. But, if this guy doesn't shape up, I would seriously consider moving the rest of the league games online.