This is a situation that came up last weekend at my regular home game. The hand occurred at 2:30am, with one of the players involved being a regular, and the other player a new guy to the group.

Player 1 had been drinking a fair bit, and raising preflop at .5/1 to $15-$25. He got into a hand, which had been 3-4 way preflop, and then got down to heads up on the turn, at which point I noticed that he was holding 3 cards. I said "hand is dead" and slid the pot in the direction of his opponent who is also the host of the game. Player 1 was immediately pissed, and showed that he was holding KKT, and that everyone knows he would have tossed the T pre-flop so it should still be live. He kept on with the whining and bitching about the situation. The host basically said sure, and started pushing the pot back his way, at which point Player 2 who is new to the group stood up and said: "this is horse****, this guy whines and bitches and gets the pot back?!" At that point the two guys start telling each other to **** off and just about start fighting, etc... Player 1 being a regular of our series who has represented our group in the WSOP, and we're familiar with his antics, and the other guy who is new, and had enough of Player 1s beaking and chirping. At that point we settled them down, but it killed the game and everyone just cashed out and went home.

What are your thoughts on this kind of situation? I have made this exact mistake in the past at this game and conceded the pot because I ****ed up. Is there any grey area in this situation, or is his hand immediately considered dead regardless if we know he would have tossed the T?

His hand should probably be dead, but if the game is normally friendly, what about taking a random card facedown as a compromise? No advantage gained, and less severe than conceding the whole pot.

This is the correct play.

What if the board was AQJx? The goofy thing about this is that nobody could know this without seeing his hand. So "everyone knows" is a weird claim to make.

People bungle hands all the time late at night with some drinks. You still lose.
Really dumb, but this is a home game, and the host is normally the final arbiter. Player 2 has no interest in the outcome. The host may have non-play reasons for keeping Player 1 happy.

Player 1 sounds like an *******. Player 2 may not be temperamentally suited to play poker.


There's zero gray area. Host is 100% entitled to the pot. He is also 100% entitled to give it up. If the host was giving Player 2's pot to Player 1, that would be a very different story.

The host is entitled to concede the pot if he really wants to, but Player 1's hand is dead, and I think it's a mistake for the host to give it up. You don't get an "Everyone knows I would've made that play" in poker, and an experienced player should know better than to try to float that ****. He made a mistake and needed to own it.

Player 2 is also out of line. I agree with his sentiment—Player 1 shouldn't get the pot with a dead hand because he whined—but getting aggressive and starting a game-breaking fight was not the way to raise the issue.

Player 1 also needs an attitude adjustment, but given that he is a long-standing player and his behavior was probably alcohol-induced, it's easier to give him a pass. But not so much the new guy. The host should consider uninviting Player 2.

What are "his antics," by the way?

Just talking a lot, teasing and chirping guys a fair bit. I was (brag) playing the tournament until it ended at just before 2am, so I wasn't really paying attention to what had been said at the cash table, and I hear some of it was out of line and he also has a tendency to spew stacks at cash and build some big pots, and continue to reload all night....

Was this a real home game, or a raked game played at someone's home?

Big difference IMHO...while neither player comes off well, if it's a raked game then I'd be a little annoyed if player 1 got the pot after complaining.

If it's a real home game, I'd seriously consider banning both players (unless they're total fish!)...life is too short to play social poker with these types of players.

Hand is dead. Pot shipped to last player with a hand. In a casino, 100% no wiggle room. At a friendly home game, whatever the 2 players decide is fine. As a host, I can see being inclined to reverse freeroll, to show there is no favoritism. In this case, I don't have a problem with the host giving the pot to the player with the most likely best hand, but I'm not opposed to them keeping it either.

If the host is a fish on Player 2's right, and Player 1 was a better player on their left... well, I can see the reasons for wanting the host to keep the pot. It doesn't sound that way. If the player is new and wants to be sure he won't be pressured to do the same, I can see the reasons for speaking up, and agree. If the player is hoping that Player 1 tilts and starts monkey spewing chips, I can see that reason as well.

IMHO, there is no room for loud arguments or physical confrontations at the poker table. I understand that stuff happens, but as an adult playing a game, I'm really not going back where those things are likely.



Slight tangent:
Heard an (old) podcast about a Crazy Pineapple game with a similar situation. There is an all-in and call on the flop. The dealer puts out a turn and river, Player 1 declares 3 of a kind at showdown, Player 2 mucks and Player 1 is found to have 3 cards. Player 2 retrieves their cards and the discussion ensues. I believe the implication was that Player 1 flopped a set of 5s, and that was good. Pot was chopped.

Stuff like this kills private home games. Try to keep it totally fair and friendly! A few bad scenes like this have a very negative effect on many folks and they will not be back.

I’m confused by the OP. Player 1 is long-time player. Player 2 is new. Yet the pot gets pushed to the host? I thought it would be pushed to Player 2, the new guy. Typo?

Player 2 wasn't even in the hand, he just didn't like that the pot got pushed to someone with too many cards, basically because he whined about it.

Real home game, this is the 6th season of our league that has sent 2-3 players to the WSOP each year.

Cash game gets going one enough guys have busted the tourney. Player 1 has been a regular for 3 years and won one of the WSOP seats in 2016. He has since apologized and says he's not going to drink at poker anymore. Player 2 was new and I'm not sure if we'll see him again...

Exaclty, although I think Player 2 may have called pre-flop and folded on the flop or turn, so he had been involved in the hand.

Good man. You can't expect everyone to behave perfectly every game, but a timely apology can make a big difference when someone has gotten out of line.

We do a cash game where the dealer picks the game right after our local tournies. (Generally Pineapple, crazy pineapple, HL Omaha, that kind of stuff) The guy who generally deals this game, as he is dealing says, "Pineapple: If you still have 3 cards after the flop...your hand is dead". He says it every time he deals, and until now I always thought he was overkilling it, laugh.

And no way would he do it if it hadn't been an issue in the past there as well.

I can see his point: If the rightful winner is going to forfeit the pot, why does the illegal hand have more of a claim to it than anyone else who held a legal hand at the point when the illegal hand became illegal?

A few years ago we were playing good and bad for way more money than that game deserves. A big hand developed between four players. $1200-$1300 got in the middle. The one player rolls over the winner with a missed discard. The pot goes to the player with the live hand. I'm fairly lax with a lot of the rules because it is a home game, but if the hand is dead, the hand is dead. Everybody moved on to the next hand.

My favorite mixed game has a player who plays fast and big, but also frequently forgets to split his hand preflop if he's been drinking a lot and we're playing SOHE or other split-hand games.

If we get to the flop (or beyond), and his hand isn't split, it's dead, period. Doesn't matter if it's an "obvious" split or whatever. It's an important rule that has to be followed, just like the discard in Pineapple. And it's a good thing that he's an even-tempered guy, because sometimes his hand gets killed in fairly big pots, and he has to grin and bear it.

It's good to have players like that in a game. Action is nice and all, but it has to be accompanied by maturity.