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Old 01-03-2018, 11:06 AM   #1
MDV Fork
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Rake in home games

At what point is a rake to hi to be able to beat the game? I ask because I have been playing in a home game with a rake of 10% and a max of $15. With 1/1 blinds and mix games of texas, PLO, PLO hi/lo, and a lot of money moves off the table after a few hours of play.
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:13 PM   #2
Bene Gesserit
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Re: Rake in home games

seems a tad high IMHO, any benefits at the game that are on the house?
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:38 PM   #3
DrStrange
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Re: Rake in home games

A huge rake can be overcome if the skill differential between hero and the rest of the table is high enough. However, the player pool is getting slaughtered if Hero is winning and the house is pulling several hundred an hour off the table.

On the other hand, my $1/$1 game has no rake / door charge / fees of any sort. Plus you get a home cooked meal, snacks and soft drinks. Players are expected to be social and good for the game, meaning fun to be with.

I know there are plenty of games like mine all over - you just have to find them. Really it is worth the effort - $15 per hand is going to crush the soul of any modest stakes game.

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Old 01-03-2018, 02:59 PM   #4
MDV Fork
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Re: Rake in home games

Thanks for the reply. There are drinks and food provided. And I know there must be a lot of factors and variables to consider. There are a couple juicy players in the game but also a lot of tuff ones. If it wasn't one of the only games in town I'm sure I wouldn't be playing in it every week.
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:21 PM   #5
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Re: Rake in home games

I hesitate to call any level of rake absolutely unbeatable, but 10% to $15 at a $1/$1 game is probably unbeatable. (I'm assuming reasonably sized stacks. The picture may be different if there are always a bunch of weak opponents punting $1,000+ stacks over and over all night, but I doubt that's the case.) Even a comparatively modest rake of 10% to $5 or $6 is significant at a typical $1/$1 game; capping at $15 is kinda insane.

You yourself pointed out how much money is noticeably leaving the table. Think about that money leaving the table as an extra player. He's a player who can't lose, who contributes little to the game beyond dealing and some minor amenities, and who makes a ridiculous hourly rate that is on the level of your best hit-with-the-deck nights. And he makes that rate consistently, every night, for the duration of the game.

In this case, we're talking about a per-hand max rake that's comparable to a decent hourly rate for a good player ($15 per hour at $1/$1 big-bet games isn't bad). But that $15 is per hand, which is outrageous when you extrapolate it to an hourly rate, assuming between 10 and 20 hands per hour. It's like having a cheat in the game who's slaughtering everyone in sight. Not really a recipe for a profitable game to play in.
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Old 01-03-2018, 05:14 PM   #6
MDV Fork
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Re: Rake in home games

That about sums it up. Now I just have to stop playing it. Like I said it's the only games in town without driving couple hours to casino. Time to start up my own game, no rake maybe just a cover charge to cover food and drink.
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Old 01-05-2018, 06:23 PM   #7
bigpeen
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Re: Rake in home games

Casinos have "better" rake than that! That dude seems nice enough to host a game, but is also scum. Its a home game and he turning it into a business.

Ive dealt with people like these, they act nice and try to be your friend, but all they care about is their personal gain off of you and your money.. Its a one-way deal with them.

If you had a bartender with drinks and a dealer, I could see paying some amount of rake. But for a 1/1 game thats just too much.

IMO a home poker game is supposed to be light, fun, comfortable, and easy. The rules tend to be lax while maintaining the goal of winning pots. Its fun to play against people that you know as friends.

I know I would never rake my own game. Simply because poker is not my job, its a hobby. Its a social thing for me. You want food or drinks? order it up or get it before you arrive.

Obviously, I treat home poker and casino poker completely different and home poker is a nice change once in a while.
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:28 PM   #8
BackDoorFlush
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Re: Rake in home games

Lol at a 1/1 game with a $15 max rake. If you saw how much money was raked off the table by the end of the night, you would want to vomit. Never play in this game.
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:37 AM   #9
BuzzKill_McGee
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Re: Rake in home games

That's more than any casino rakes. The casinos in my area rake 10% max $6 and $1 to a massive quads over quads bad beat jackpot thats usually 100k-500k. Plus free food/snacks and soda or coffee. I would never play in any home game that rakes more than that. What the heck could he offer that a casino does not?
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:07 PM   #10
gpo613
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Re: Rake in home games

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzKill_McGee View Post
That's more than any casino rakes. The casinos in my area rake 10% max $6 and $1 to a massive quads over quads bad beat jackpot thats usually 100k-500k. Plus free food/snacks and soda or coffee. I would never play in any home game that rakes more than that. What the heck could he offer that a casino does not?
What he offers is a chance you won't get paid at the end of the night because too many players are on credit.

Or a chance you will get a gun stuck in your face and be robbed.

The casinos don't offer that.
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Old 01-08-2018, 04:17 PM   #11
Jimulacrum
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Re: Rake in home games

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Originally Posted by gpo613 View Post
What he offers is a chance you won't get paid at the end of the night because too many players are on credit.

Or a chance you will get a gun stuck in your face and be robbed.

The casinos don't offer that.
^ True facts.

That's another thing about "home" games that rake too deep. Given the host's unabashed greed and/or lack of judgment, just about anything is apt to go wrong. They're often not selective enough about their players, or the host has a gambling problem and plays on the finger all night, or they extend credit to everyone and anyone, or whatever.

And if any of that causes a problem at your expense, can you guess how much recourse you have?
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Old 01-08-2018, 04:23 PM   #12
sw_emigre
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Re: Rake in home games

No need to rehash it here, but I'll just mention for OP since he might be somewhat noob, there is a difference between a home game and an underground game. You found the latter.

You mentioned starting your own home game. There's no need to rake, no need to supply food and likka. There's a number of threads here with tips on how to do this. GL
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Old 01-08-2018, 05:09 PM   #13
Bene Gesserit
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Re: Rake in home games

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDV Fork View Post
That about sums it up. Now I just have to stop playing it. Like I said it's the only games in town without driving couple hours to casino. Time to start up my own game, no rake maybe just a cover charge to cover food and drink.
If you must get some money to cover expenses , then just charge a flat seat charge and DO NOT rake pots. It is still not totally legit in most places, but it is safer and easier to do it that way. Friendly , no rake/ no seat charge totally legal is the way we go , but i realize that some folks need a little break on costs!
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Old 01-11-2018, 06:09 AM   #14
BackDoorFlush
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Re: Rake in home games

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Originally Posted by BuzzKill_McGee View Post
What the heck could he offer that a casino does not?
Hookers and blow, obviously.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:58 PM   #15
BuzzKill_McGee
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Re: Rake in home games

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Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush View Post
Hookers and blow, obviously.
LOL good one
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:48 PM   #16
chillrob
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Re: Rake in home games

That may be a reasonable rake if hookers and blow are included.
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:32 PM   #17
murstyle15
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Re: Rake in home games

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Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush View Post
Hookers and blow, obviously.
Wheres this game??? UMMM I am asking for a friend...
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:09 AM   #18
kittrell87
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Re: Rake in home games

I have seen games where the house pulls $5 from every $100 buy in but provides food, drinks, beer, snacks. The way it normally works out is the house may clear $100 at the end of the night to go towards the power bill and investing back into the game like more chips,cards, nicer chairs etc. That seems like a structure that everyone is happy with.
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Old 03-22-2018, 01:41 PM   #19
Bene Gesserit
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Re: Rake in home games

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Originally Posted by kittrell87 View Post
I have seen games where the house pulls $5 from every $100 buy in but provides food, drinks, beer, snacks. The way it normally works out is the house may clear $100 at the end of the night to go towards the power bill and investing back into the game like more chips,cards, nicer chairs etc. That seems like a structure that everyone is happy with.
This is similar to a seat charge system. Much easier to manage than raking pots. Still not really leagal in most places, but not a "serious " enough sized game for local Barney Fyfes to go after most of the time.
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