07-21-2012 , 11:17 AM
Sorry if the title is confusing, but I didn't know the best way to describe it. Anyway, playing 1/2 @ a home game when this happened..

Background info: "Player A" is one of those people who likes to make every poker joke 34 times a night and thinks he's just absolutely hilarious. A few examples...

-Everybody will limp to his BB/straddle. He will take 10 seconds to count out a raise, then laugh and check

-We faced with a bet, he will put his hands on all his chips and go "I'm all.... OUT"

-He will also "block" bets, as I'm about to describe.

UTG opens to \$10
Player A calls \$10
Player B starts counting out a raise which from my view looks like \$30 total, but I'm not sure.

Player A is in the 7 seat, Player B in the 8. As Player B goes to toss in the raise, Player A sticks his hand out and blocks the chips, and they bounce back into Player B's stack (isn't this guy just ****ing hilarious? ...) Player B then re-stacks his raise and tosses out \$40, Player A then protests saying he can't add to then raise and that he wasn't going to make it that much.

It's hard to really tell from my point as to how much he really had. Player B's stack consisted off a single \$100 bill, 1 red stack (\$100) and probably another \$50 in red. When Player A blocked the raise, the chips bounced into Player B's small stack (the one with about \$50 in red) and the chips got knocked over.

Ruling? Other than a KITN to Player A.
07-21-2012 , 11:31 AM
\$40
07-21-2012 , 11:33 AM
Unless Player A is an ATM--get rid of him. After a full round of everyone getting a KITN shot

Now if someone can say exactly what the first bet was, then it must be that amount, otherwise it's a string raise. If the amount cannot be determined then 'B' can raise any amount.

And then give "A" a nut shot.
07-21-2012 , 11:33 AM
Do you have any sort of betting line? Casino rules would state that you can fiddle with your chips as much as you want behind the line, but once a chunk has hit the felt, or been made verbally, you cannot change it.

If his chips were going towards the other players stack and not the middle of the table, I would say he can still vary his bet
07-21-2012 , 11:38 AM
Player B's raise is to \$40 (unless the original raise can be proven otherwise). UTG can call, raise or fold. According to Hoyle, the host along with players C,D,E,F, etc. must grab Player A by all extremities, toss him into the nearest garbage heap and distribute his chips equally among all remaining players.
07-21-2012 , 02:09 PM
There's no betting line. The sad thing is half the table actually thinks this guy is funny. I wouldn't call him an ATM, but he's not good. If I had to guess I'd say slight winner, maybe break even.

I mentioned that I thought he originally grabbed less then \$40 but nobody could prove an amount so they let the raise stand which I didn't mind. Player A wasn't happy, serves the douchebag right IMO. He probably won't learn though.
07-21-2012 , 02:23 PM
Get a grownup to tell the kids at the table to act better or they will get in trouble.
07-21-2012 , 02:59 PM
This is a home game, right? I wouldn't put up with this nonsense. But then, I don't play home games because they're full of this sort of nonsense. Joke all you want, it's just annoying, but interfering with/obstructing the action of the game is not something we should have to put up with.
07-21-2012 , 03:04 PM
Yes, physically deny someone from putting chips in the pot and then cry about it. That'll get you far.

\$40 all day.
07-21-2012 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by allin4flush
This is a home game, right? I wouldn't put up with this nonsense. But then, I don't play home games because they're full of this sort of nonsense. Joke all you want, it's just annoying, but interfering with/obstructing the action of the game is not something we should have to put up with.
Unfortunately for any people that live in or around Denver, the closest casino is up a mountain over an hour away. So it's highly inconvenient. This game isn't high on my charts, but the game I would usually go to never got off.

If most of the players weren't laughably awful, I wouldn't put up with it.
07-21-2012 , 03:46 PM
Quote:
Yes, physically deny someone from putting chips in the pot and then cry about it. That'll get you far.

\$40 all day.
This player's antics annoy me more than anybody else who plays there. Doesn't affect my play, he's just annoying. There were 2 tables at the game and he wanted his "friend" to switch tables, even though his friend is one of the best players in the game. Then when he finally moved over, I moved from the 5 to the 6 seat (douche was in the 7) because I did not want the toughest, most aggressive player there on my direct left. He then started giving me **** because he "wanted to sit by his friend blah blah blah" I just laughed it off and said I didn't want the kid on my left, so too bad for him.
07-21-2012 , 05:25 PM
I agree that the \$40 should be allowable. The player hasn't been given an unrestricted opportunity to act yet, so let him. I also agree that Player A needs to straighten up. Even if he is not bad for your game, he is bad for poker, especially considering that the other players find him funny. That **** will spread from your home game

There is also the issue of touching another player's hands or chips. My friends are allowed to make change from my stack, post my blinds, etc. If someone like Player A were to go anywhere near my chips, there would be a real problem. That's reason enough for someone to intervene and shut this guy down for good.
07-21-2012 , 05:46 PM
Player A and B certainly aren't strangers but I don't know if I'd consider them friends (though they could be away from the table). Not that that would make the situation better. Player B laughed about it when he did it. In a nutshell, Player A is without a doubt the biggest pain in the ass I've dealt with. I've had a fair share of "disagreements" with him will I had when I dealt some games. Including him try to tell me that throwing a single \$5 chip on top of his small blind is a raise, and telling me to "learn the rules of poker before I want to deal" when I told him that out of turn action was binding if the action does not change.
07-21-2012 , 05:48 PM
You can't make a ruling based on how many chips a player had in his hands, because there's no way to KNOW exactly how many chips are there until he releases them into the pot. Any testimony of "he had more/fewer chips in his hand" is irrelevant and inadmissible.

And of course, just as there's no crying in baseball, there's no Dikembe Motumbo in poker. T this guy up.
07-21-2012 , 06:40 PM
Home game be damned - if I'm player B I'm getting mighty upset that anyone besides the dealer thinks they have the right to touch my chips. Let this one slide and next thing this guy does will be to start turning other peoples cards face up thinking it's a barrel of laughs.
07-21-2012 , 07:58 PM
If it was my home game I'd rule it \$40 and kill player A's hand for interfering with another player's stack. Extreme I know, but maybe this douche needs to learn some etiquette the hard way.
07-21-2012 , 09:24 PM
I would let player B go \$40. If I was in one of my better moods, then I might point out some of players b chips landed in players A stack.
07-21-2012 , 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidNB
I would let player B go \$40. If I was in one of my better moods, then I might point out some of players b chips landed in players A stack.
Haha.

Mods; Sorry if I misplaced this. I know it was at a home game (though not a legal one), but most of the games I play at "try" to run it similar to a casino (hire dealers, have BBJ or high hand promos, etc.) just thought B&M would be better.
07-21-2012 , 10:35 PM
If this were my home game, player A is getting a friendly don't do that again talk from me and then uninvited if it happened again. (There might be an alternative explanation though, see below. I'd be very attentive to what player A has to say about why he was doing this.)

Since it appears to be a 'for profit' home game, perhaps the operator has more tolerence for foolishness than I might have in my house. However, I think the potential for conflict is significant, this could get out of hand.

As for the amount of the bet - player B says he wants to raise \$40 and that is fine by me. I can't imagine player B plotted to angle the table to string bet +\$10 knowing that player A was going to intercept his bet. Things are already not going well this hand, let's not get into a pointless discussion of bet sizing +/- \$10.

I am bothered by player B also. The idea of someone 'tossing in a raise' sounds a lot like someone splashing the pot. I could imagine player A might decide to block a \$40 raise with \$30 in chips about to fly into the pot. Players shouldn't be tossing bets, though 'blocking' the toss is not the way to solve the problem.

Shorting the pot is a common and effective way to cheat. Splashing the pot is potentially a big deal and deserves attention. OP might be exactly right about \$30 in hand vs a stated intention to bet \$40 - but the problem to worry about isn't a string bet.

DrStrange
07-22-2012 , 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirRawrsALot
Haha.

Mods; Sorry if I misplaced this. I know it was at a home game (though not a legal one), but most of the games I play at "try" to run it similar to a casino (hire dealers, have BBJ or high hand promos, etc.) just thought B&M would be better.
if its a undeground card room then you really need to straigthen this guy out. Otherwise your clients are going to find another place to play. Whats this guy going to do next? Muck his hand into someones live hand?
07-22-2012 , 11:32 AM
telling corny and repetitive jokes: meh, a matter of taste, hard to rule out of existence, and low damage.

interfering with the action: gotta stop.
07-22-2012 , 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrStrange
I am bothered by player B also. The idea of someone 'tossing in a raise' sounds a lot like someone splashing the pot. I could imagine player A might decide to block a \$40 raise with \$30 in chips about to fly into the pot. Players shouldn't be tossing bets, though 'blocking' the toss is not the way to solve the problem.

DrStrange
Um, no. I just meant he tossed them in as opposed to stacking the chips. In no way was it going to resemble the splashing the pot. It's pretty hard to splash the pot pre-flop anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidNB
if its a undeground card room then you really need to straigthen this guy out. Otherwise your clients are going to find another place to play. Whats this guy going to do next? Muck his hand into someones live hand?

They are not my clients, and it would appear that I'm the only one who sees how big of a problem this guy is. If I did run my own game, I'd have no problem telling this guy to knock his antics off or don't come.
07-22-2012 , 03:17 PM
Talk to the guy outside game. It sounds like he doesn t understand expected conduct at the game. Its just a matter of time before he does something else. Best outside the game for these talks.
07-22-2012 , 04:13 PM
I m assuming he is like this in other games aswell. I am also assuming he has no idea that his conduct is unacceptable. Just have a good talk with him, explain what is acceptable and what isn t.
07-23-2012 , 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KKcracked
If it was my home game I'd rule it \$40 and kill player A's hand for interfering with another player's stack. Extreme I know, but maybe this douche needs to learn some etiquette the hard way.
I wouldn't kill his hand because that could be costing player B money.

m