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Old 05-05-2011, 02:07 PM   #1
Jofeljoh!
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Thumbs up pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

Hi,

so i bought these mixed games placards from pfapfap, they arrived this Tuesday. They look awesome and I can't wait to play with them and see what my friends think about them.

A reminder, they look like this:




The other threads are either locked or disappeared completely, for reasons beyond me, but no sweat right? Hope I can get some answers here and maybe others have some questions as well.

I look forward using them and will post a review after the first session (might take a while unfortunately ).

Anyway, I've been browsing the cards a bit, and I'll just randomly ask my questions here per game.

Binglaha

Probably doesn't matter at all, but who rolls the die? Button, or closest to it?

Q/Stud 8

Is the difference in bring-in (q high, stud 8 low) the only one? Looks like a very trivial difference in an ante game

5 card draw

no question here, just wanted to point out that you miss a letter ("Big Bet t Open" it says).

Gardena Jackpots

I think I need a more detailed explanation and possibly an example. So you get 5 cards down, and you can only bet if you have a pair of jacks or better? Let's say someone opens (so he has jacks or better), can anyone after that enter the pot, even though they have lower than that? And after the draw, betting, then showdown: does the opening player have to show at least the jacks as 'evidence'. If he doesn't, is there a consequence?). Does the bug with an A immediately counts as a pair of aces and therefore qualifies? If no one qualifies, you just keep re-anteing until you qualify (so in theory you can get a huge pot?) Never played this and not sure how it works exactly

Jacks Back

Basically same questions

Ace to five

What does "must bet 7" mean exactly? That you must bet a 7 low? And why should that be mandatory? Why is a check-raise illegal, seems a bit silly. Or is that just a case of 'well, that's just how the game is played!'?

Chowaha

'Best 5 card hands from individual & connected community' and the other half lowest ranking. (so if I understand correctly, you can use a whole board like in Hold'em?)

So does this, theoretically means that if out of the 4 legal combinations of boards, and there's like a wheel on one of them; you have 6 players at showdown, there's little money in the pot, and let's say 1 player takes the high with a fullhouse, you have to split the other half 6 ways? Isn't this a bit difficult?

Yes theoretically and maybe not likely... but still would like to know :P


Well, these are my questions for now, hope they aren't too stupid :P
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:44 PM   #2
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

I'm glad you started this thread. Management came down...well, actually, not hard at all...on PFAP for advertising here and in other forums. Let's keep this informational and not promotional, for everyone's sake.

I've been thinking about ordering these myself. I know there are people here, perhaps PFAP himself, who can answer your questions.
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:07 PM   #3
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

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Originally Posted by eneely View Post
I've been thinking about ordering these myself. I know there are people here, perhaps PFAP himself, who can answer your questions.
You'll have to wait a few days.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2875
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Old 05-05-2011, 03:18 PM   #4
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

The Ace-5 question is just "because that's the rules of the game."

Page 30 of Robert's Rules of Poker covers this.

Section 11, "ACE-TO-FIVE-LOWBALL:"
Rule #2
In limit play, check-raise is not permitted (unless the players are alerted that it is allowed).
Rule #4
In limit play, the “sevens rule” is assumed to be in use (the players should be alerted if it is not). If you check a seven or better and it is the best hand, all action after the draw is void, and you cannot win any money on any subsequent bets. You are still eligible to win whatever existed in the pot before the draw if you have the best hand. If you check a seven or better and the hand is beaten, you lose the pot and any additional calls you make. If there is an all-in bet after the draw that is less than half a bet, a seven or better may just call and win that bet. However, if another player overcalls this short bet and loses, the person who overcalls receives the bet back. If the seven or better completes to a full bet, this fulfills all obligations.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jofeljoh! View Post
Hi,


Q/Stud 8

Is the difference in bring-in (q high, stud 8 low) the only one? Looks like a very trivial difference in an ante game
The low hand in Q can be anything, there is no qualifier.
Q = Razz + Stud Hi
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:30 PM   #6
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

Ah got it!

Thanks guys, and keep them coming
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:32 PM   #7
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

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Originally Posted by Jofeljoh! View Post
Gardena Jackpots

I think I need a more detailed explanation and possibly an example. So you get 5 cards down, and you can only bet if you have a pair of jacks or better? Let's say someone opens (so he has jacks or better), can anyone after that enter the pot, even though they have lower than that? And after the draw, betting, then showdown: does the opening player have to show at least the jacks as 'evidence'. If he doesn't, is there a consequence?). Does the bug with an A immediately counts as a pair of aces and therefore qualifies? If no one qualifies, you just keep re-anteing until you qualify (so in theory you can get a huge pot?) Never played this and not sure how it works exactly
The Cali boyz can confirm, but from what I know about 5-draw with or without a "bug" (the joker)

a) Yes, you have to have openers. If you split openers, to draw to something else, you have to prove the openers after the hand is over. I do not know what the penalties are.

b) Once someone opens, they are HOPING, for the most part, that you come along with less. So, yes, you can come in with bupkiss after an opener, if you choose.

c) Yes, the bug is either an Ace or a wild card for flush/straight/straight flush combos only. Of course, Aces full also works.

d) Re-anteing: Depends on house rule, but without one... yes, you re-ante until someone opens a pot. If someone cheats on openers then, I imagine that the penalties from #a above are increased.

Quote:
Ace to five

What does "must bet 7" mean exactly? That you must bet a 7 low? And why should that be mandatory? Why is a check-raise illegal, seems a bit silly. Or is that just a case of 'well, that's just how the game is played!'?
I can't answer "why?" but that is the case, as I understand the game. If you don't lead out with a 7, anything above one bet gets returned to the other player(s).

edit- I see I was wrong- you don't even get to win a single bet with the checked monster.

I would love to find out why this became a rule.
Quote:
Chowaha

So does this, theoretically means that if out of the 4 legal combinations of boards, and there's like a wheel on one of them; you have 6 players at showdown, there's little money in the pot, and let's say 1 player takes the high with a fullhouse, you have to split the other half 6 ways? Isn't this a bit difficult?

Yes theoretically and maybe not likely... but still would like to know :P
It's exactly the same as if you have a rainbow Broadway board in hold'em. Can you answer your own question now?

Quote:
Well, these are my questions for now, hope they aren't too stupid :P
Maybe only that last one, just a tad....
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:08 AM   #8
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

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It's exactly the same as if you have a rainbow Broadway board in hold'em. Can you answer your own question now?

I understand that but that really wasn't the point of my question. :P Should have rephrased probably :P

The point was: getting quartered in omaha 8 isn't all too uncommon, and there there's only one board AND you have to use 2 cards from your hole cards. In Chowaha you have 4 boards AND you may use either 2 or 1 from your hole cards or one of the 4 complete boaards. You at least agree that the chance for a shared winning hand is a lot bigger than in O8? So that leaves me to my example when there are a lot of players in the hand, it seems to me that it can be a pain in the ass to chop the pot if there's such a scenario.

(and I said it may be unlikely, but when I think of people in my home game... players tend to play unknown games as conservatively as possible, committing the least amount of money they can... checking and in a rare case of raise only call and overcall... so you have a lot of multiway pots with not a lot of money in it usually.

Quote:
Maybe only that last one, just a tad....
Oh well, I deserved that one
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:13 AM   #9
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

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The point was: getting quartered in omaha 8 isn't all too uncommon, and there there's only one board AND you have to use 2 cards from your hole cards. In Chowaha you have 4 boards AND you may use either 2 or 1 from your hole cards or one of the 4 complete boaards. You at least agree that the chance for a shared winning hand is a lot bigger than in O8? So that leaves me to my example when there are a lot of players in the hand, it seems to me that it can be a pain in the ass to chop the pot if there's such a scenario.
Welcome to the joy that is split multi-board games.
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Old 05-06-2011, 10:19 AM   #10
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

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Originally Posted by Lottery Larry View Post
Welcome to the joy that is split multi-board games.
Yeah, these cards go in the drawer for a while when my set arrives. Most of my players get confused playing straight Omaha.

For them, multi-board games = headasplode.
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Old 05-06-2011, 11:11 AM   #11
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

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Welcome to the joy that is split multi-board games.
Well, that's the answer I was looking for I guess lol.

Probably better to wait with these as well, don't want my walls covered in brains and pieces of skull.
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Old 05-06-2011, 11:45 AM   #12
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

in my experience, chopping the pot isn't that bad.

identifying the winners can take a while, though. In 08 you have those "live 2" shortcuts and anyone can see that without a pair on the board, there has to be 3 flush cards to make an A-high flush the nuts (check for sf's). But in something like criss cross, the low can be made so many different ways, and highs can be extremely well hidden, that it takes a lot of discussion to get through it all.

I strongly recommend playing fixed TIME rounds, not a # of hands, when including these in the mix.
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Old 05-09-2011, 04:29 PM   #13
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

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Hi,

Binglaha

Probably doesn't matter at all, but who rolls the die? Button, or closest to it?
Button rolls, but it doesn't matter really as long as it's agreed upon ahead of the deal.

Quote:
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Q/Stud 8

Is the difference in bring-in (q high, stud 8 low) the only one? Looks like a very trivial difference in an ante game
Do you mean the only difference in the game? If so, not quite - if I remember correctly "Q" is what I've heard called "Stud Natural" which is a hi/lo stud game with no low qualifier - ie, there's always a low
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:33 AM   #14
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

Glad y'all like them! I trust questions have been answered ITT, otherwise you can email me at pfapoker@gmail.com for more info. At this point I think I've almost broken even on the materials I had to buy, so thank you all for supporting my poker hobby.

It seems 2+2 has a high estimation of my skillset, because they feel this is worthy of a commercial enterprise. It's nice to finally be recognized! And here I thought I was just trying grass-roots attempts to promote non-NLHE forms of poker.

As it turns out, I've caught the eye of a smartphone app developer, and we're in talks now to bring something to market. Both of us see it as a project of passion, and don't expect to make profit on the hundres upon hundreds of hours it will take to develop, but it will certainly be a lot of fun!
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:49 AM   #15
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

An iPhone and/or iPad app would be awesome, we've already touched upon that subject in an earlier thread. If you need any ideas or input...
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:47 PM   #16
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

My set arrived today, and at first glance I like them. For a homemade hobby "product" they have a good look & feel. I'll try to get some feedback from the players in my tourney group tonight - we often have a dealer's choice cash game afterwards, and if it goes I'll pull these out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfapfap View Post
As it turns out, I've caught the eye of a smartphone app developer, and we're in talks now to bring something to market. Both of us see it as a project of passion, and don't expect to make profit on the hundres upon hundreds of hours it will take to develop, but it will certainly be a lot of fun!
This would be awesome - I hope to see an Android version. And if your developer is iOS only, let me know. I've been looking for a fun project to start honing my newb Android skills.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:15 PM   #17
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

Thanks again folks... I sure would like to hear how they're working out in your games!

The iPhone app is coming along well, and is solving all my problems about wanting a 3D matrix of organization. After about six different versions and organizational schemes, I think I have a really solid, easy, intuitive, and fun UI designed. And the potential for future options and expansion is nearly unlimited. I'm sure all of us can think of a dozen "wouldn't it be cool if..." kinds of things.

Unfortunately it takes a couple of months for Apple to approve it, so even if we hauled butt on it, we couldn't have it in time for WSOP. Would have been a perfect launch time, too. Oh well.

But anybody who orders a set of the physical cards will get to be a beta tester for the app!
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Old 05-15-2011, 02:48 PM   #18
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

I have a first generation iPod Touch. Do you know if the older models will be supported or will it only work on the current OS? I would love to have this app. How hard would it be to port it to Android? Good luck with the development!
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Old 05-15-2011, 04:20 PM   #19
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

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But anybody who orders a set of the physical cards will get to be a beta tester for the app!
Okay, I'll just have to steal my daughter's iPod Touch to test it.

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How hard would it be to port it to Android?
Different languages, APIs - you're writing an entirely new app.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:02 AM   #20
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

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Different languages, APIs - you're writing an entirely new app.
While true, once you get the high level stuff and the structure all good and polished on one platform it doesn't take as long to re-write it on another, usually, on something simple like this. Maybe we could do the Android version Schmend... (i'm a CS major, work in IT)

On another note, I used these placards this weekend with the wife and parents. I wanted to play some cards but more for fun and for cheeseburger stakes, but Hold em is so bleh with 4 folks. So we ended up playing a mixed game at .50/$1 limit. Each round we played a different game randomly by drawing from my set of 16 pfapards. It was great success, everyone had fun, and my parents cleaned the wife and I out

I couldn't just show the card and everyone get it, but they really helped me explain the games and the bet sizing. "Look, the 4th card is a big bet, see?"
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Old 05-16-2011, 10:09 AM   #21
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

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Maybe we could do the Android version Schmend... (i'm a CS major, work in IT)
I think it would be fun, but I wouldn't step on pfap's toes unless he was interested in fielding an Android version.

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Each round we played a different game randomly by drawing from my set of 16 pfapards.
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Old 05-16-2011, 10:25 AM   #22
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

Why does this need to be native? It should be easy enough to use something like PhoneGap to write an HTML/CSS/JS app that can be deployed to just about every smartphone platform.
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Old 05-16-2011, 11:11 AM   #23
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

I am at the mercy of what people will code for me. I do graphics, flowchart, and UI. An iPhone programmer contacted me, so that's what we're doing.
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Old 05-17-2011, 07:16 AM   #24
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

How much for a set of the cards?
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Old 05-17-2011, 09:25 AM   #25
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Re: pfapfaps mixed games placards Q&A thread

My set of cards arrived last week---very nice. More information is available on-line here:
http://www.pfapfap.org/poker/ or you can send an e-mail to pfapoker@gmail.com
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