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Old 03-20-2018, 04:26 PM   #1
Bullwinkle
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Opponent doesn't show whole hand on river when called. Acceptable response?

PLO. Opponent raises all-in and is called. Board is run out. Opponent shows two cards for 2-pair and looks to me to show my whole hand, refusing to show other cards.

Given that our rule at home game is that all four cards must show to win a pot and that opponent is clearly interested in winning the pot by showing two of their cards, is it reasonable for me to wait for opponent to show whole hand before opening up in turn?

Note: I'm not asking opponent to show all four cards. Opponent can clearly fold if not wishing to show (and I verbalized this to opponent when they asked me to show) but I'm requiring opponent to do one or the other before I act (fold or show all four cards)

Backstory: Opponent is often told to table hand or fold, holding up action, in the hopes of not showing hand unless 100% confident it is the winning hand, regardless of Opponent's responsibility to open up first/in turn.
(though I seem to be the only one visibly upset about the action being held up time and time again)
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:13 PM   #2
DrStrange
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Re: Opponent doesn't show whole hand on river when called. Acceptable response?

In general, these types of issues just slow the game down. But there is informational value to be gained by pressing the issue - more so in an Omaha game than in a Hold'em game. Also there is some chance villain is going to fold a winning hand he/she missed by not tabling the whole hand.

In this case, I think the player's interest is more important than the need to keep up the pace of the game. Hero should ask villain if he is folding. If the standoff persists, then Hero should start asking for help from the dealer / floor.

I wouldn't table my hand until villain shows his whole hand unless forced to do so. It wouldn't matter to me if I could beat the two cards shown.

Bottom line, make villain show his whole hand or fold -=- DrStrange
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:02 AM   #3
Bene Gesserit
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Re: Opponent doesn't show whole hand on river when called. Acceptable response?

OP is this a friendly home game , or is it a underground raked game that happens to be held in a home? The kind of game it is can make a difference in what should happen. BTW your comment that you are the only one who seems to care might mean that you may need to adjust to the table dynamics a little more!
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Old 03-21-2018, 11:02 AM   #4
Bullwinkle
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Re: Opponent doesn't show whole hand on river when called. Acceptable response?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit View Post
OP is this a friendly home game , or is it a underground raked game that happens to be held in a home? The kind of game it is can make a difference in what should happen. BTW your comment that you are the only one who seems to care might mean that you may need to adjust to the table dynamics a little more!
Thanks for the reply.

This is a semi-friendly home game; not raked. We still enforce all rules of play like a casino would, but we self deal the cards and don't get too upset about order of cards (ie - should two people's cards become intertwined during the deal due to poor dealer aim, they'll just grab the four closest cards to them and be fine with it).

Are you suggesting that I should "go along to get along" here? Should I have to show all four cards to beat my opponents two cards? Seems like my opponent is using this opportunity time and time again to force their opponent to show all cards, while not extending the same courtesy (and really, it is a rule, right? Show your complete hand when it's your turn), under the guise of 'it's a friendly game'. At what point do you draw a line in the sand, or do you?

This particular opponent I would be fine with chasing out of the game, so I don't mind if they care if what I'm doing is 'friendly' or not, b/c I don't consider this person's actions friendly in regards to this issue. However, I certainly don't want to upset the overall feel of the game.
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Old 03-21-2018, 12:54 PM   #5
Voovanzi
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Re: Opponent doesn't show whole hand on river when called. Acceptable response?

I would simply ask him why he feels the need to play like that, even after repeatedly being asked to show all four cards.

Ask him what is his point of only showing 2 cards.
It seems everyone else in the game has no problem showing their hand, why must you make waves unnecessarily?

He likely won't have a good answer, unless he says, "Hey , I'm a douche, that's why."

Then maybe he'll realize he's slowing the game and breaking the rules and stop doing it.

Also, this sort of thing should be addressed by the host of the game.

When i host, i have general house rules posted, and if something not posted comes up, I handle it.
If it's disputed we search for an answer, but in the end, house rules apply.
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Old 03-22-2018, 01:28 PM   #6
Bene Gesserit
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Re: Opponent doesn't show whole hand on river when called. Acceptable response?

Bullwinkle

Thanks, the description of your group seems to be less than rigid about some things , but generally interested in doing things right most of the time. You seem more than a little bothered by this specific thing. I would seek out the host in private and explain your trouble with this player. If he or she shows indifference and you posted that other players don't express any problem with it either, then YES I think you might be better off to "go along to get along, or if it is that bothersome to you , finding another game is a good option. The worst thing for you to do is to make a big deal out of it with the guy during or right after the hand. If you know the host backs your play then a polite confrontation might help, however! So find out where you stand with the host on this first. Best of luck! Home poker rules and structures can be annoying some times!
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Old 03-22-2018, 02:31 PM   #7
Bullwinkle
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Re: Opponent doesn't show whole hand on river when called. Acceptable response?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene Gesserit View Post
Bullwinkle

Thanks, the description of your group seems to be less than rigid about some things , but generally interested in doing things right most of the time. You seem more than a little bothered by this specific thing. I would seek out the host in private and explain your trouble with this player. If he or she shows indifference and you posted that other players don't express any problem with it either, then YES I think you might be better off to "go along to get along, or if it is that bothersome to you , finding another game is a good option. The worst thing for you to do is to make a big deal out of it with the guy during or right after the hand. If you know the host backs your play then a polite confrontation might help, however! So find out where you stand with the host on this first. Best of luck! Home poker rules and structures can be annoying some times!
Thanks! Very reasonable solution that I of course won't follow b/c people who ask for help on 2+2 never take reasonable suggestions.

Seriously, though, thanks for the input.
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:52 PM   #8
eneely
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Re: Opponent doesn't show whole hand on river when called. Acceptable response?

I agree that while this sort of shenanigans is generally a waste of time, this fellow seems to insist on pushing the line. I would insist on seeing his entire hand.

If none of the prior suggestions work, what if you showed two cards? Even two irrelevant cards? You could then, perhaps, show the other two to win, and out-douche him!
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