Your game getting stale? I think I've discovered nirvana for poker degenerates.

$1/$2 with a $5 button ante
$5 bounty for deuce-seven
$4 rock for live UTG straddles

The Rock: A bundle of chips held together with a rubber band signifying an obligatory live straddle. If the player under the gun has the rock, he must use it to post a live straddle. The winner of the pot collects the rock and is obligated to use it in turn. This player is not allowed to leave the table with the rock; he must leave it behind as a post, whether he plays the hand or not.

Seven Deuce Game: Win a pot in any way and everyone dealt in pays you the agreed upon amount.

Scale as necessary. You’ll thank me later.

Someone mentioned the rock in another thread. Here's what I asked/commented:


1. What happens if the guy who has the rock is in the blinds?

2. If the rock is on the button, who is first to act preflop?

3. My impression of the Rock is this: It gets the game going primarily because people like the social status (or whatever) of having the rock. Without this effect, a forced UTG straddle should produce more action than the rock because: a) the rock has no direct monetary value, b) the rock could be spending a lot of time on the hijack-button, making it both redundant and harder to steal. Amirite? What is the poker theory/strategy behind the rock?


4. Possible Modification: The "Super Rock". The owner of the Super Rock has last action on all streets of the hand. Makes the rock way more valuable to own, although it is also more intimidating to attempt to steal. It reminds me of the "winner's ball" rule in street basketball.



BTW, this game you designed is not for "degenerates." Degenerates do not need help creating action. What it does is force more action from the tight players.

I think the idea of the 'rock' is that whoever has it only uses it when UTG.

To be honest, I just prefer regular straddling and re-straddling to get games going.

X2, or just have NL w/antes.

^this.

Looks as if I didn't have all of the details correct, dismal. I look forward to his answer to your post.

.

Oddly, in the crazy action-packed degenerate NL games I play, people don't like the Rock. But we often have straddles and re-straddles (and sometimes re-re-straddles) anyway.

This is the first time I've ever heard of The Rock, and I hope I can implement it in our home games to see if people like it. Also, regarding the Button ante: that's dead money in the pot, right? So if it's folded around to the Button, he still has to call the $2 BB if he wants to call, or can raise/fold appropriately?

Yep, dead money, he still has to call the $2.

I commented in the "fun extras to keep them coming back" thread that the UTG Rock only works for donks.
So I came up with yet another variation:


Mississippi Rock

Same as the normal rock, but used as a straddle on the button ("Mississippi straddle")

Sharks and donks alike should want to steal it, since it builds the pot when you're in position. Of course, you can't allow voluntary Mississippi straddles, since that will make the rock redundant.

And to increase the frequency it comes into play, there's always the possibility of having two rocks floating around. Either way, just make sure the game is reasonably deep.

Man, I can't wait to try this out.


BTW, on a related note: Typically, when there is an MS in effect, the SB acts first, not UTG. I think this is a flawed procedure because the blinds are tightening up their completion range because they can get popped by the whole table. Whereas if the action ended with SB, BB, MS, then only the MS could pop the BB limp, etc. So, imo, action would be maximally generated if the "option" sequence were kept in tact, with the MS action appended to the end.



Your name is Rockmaninoff. Didn't you invent this thing?

In your home games, try the mississippi version. Actually, try both versions and find out which works best. And report back.



Some games will put a 3rd blind on the button, however, this is somewhat redundant, since people like to play the button anyway, and also since it's a lot scarier to steal someone's blind when it's on the button.

The only reason the button posts the (dead) ante is for administrative convenience-- if you make each individual ante, you would need to introduce small ante chips, and even worse, you'd have to remind people to ante all the time, etc.

have you ever played with a rock before? thats not how its used asdfasdf32,
youre taking something that exists already and calling it something else and bastardizing it, it seems like youre trying to make it a NL or PL kill, which its not. The rock goes to the winner of the pot every hand regardless, blinds, button, utg, doesnt matter, when the nest hand begins, the action starts on the rock.

FROM WIKIPEDIA:
A bundle of chips held together with a rubber band, or other token signifying an obligatory live straddle. If the player under the gun has the rock, he must use it to post a live straddle. The winner of the pot collects the rock and is obligated to use it in turn.

Why would the action start on the rock? That's horrible. You would have to tighten up so much it's pathetic since you have to worry about an entire table raising it up.

Action starting on the Rock makes no sense.

I really like the idea of the Mississippi Rock. When they do the button straddle at the Hard Rock, there can be two raises that the entire table acts upon before the straddle has to put in any more chips.

It's going to be a while before I host another cash game, but I may throw that one in there.

Typically, as I understood it, a true, "action" straddle would play in normal order around the table... but skipping over the straddle and continuing through the blinds, then the straddle acts.

I believe this is typically done with the Rock as well.

You make such a definitive statement, we need the source, please.

This is personal experience? (where?)

Is this a written rule you're paraphrasing? (where)?

ummm... what? if the Rock were first to act, it wouldn't be any different than the play in any other straddle position.

Raise, check- pretty easy. It's the rest of the table that has to decide- tight? or ATTACK!

I'm sure there are variations everywhere. My understanding of the rock and how I've seen it independently described in various situations is that it's a forced UTG straddle, used there and at no other time. It acts as a third blind, just as you'd expect it to.

But I do like the idea of the Mississippi Rock, with action completing up to two raises before the MS Rock acts, regardless of position. Tho' I think I'm going to do a Hard Rock Rock, where it's only usable on the button (and not mandatory). Makes it a prize rather than an every-hand thing.

So if a nit gets it, it could just go out of play?

This game was played at a cash game I frequented back in college in 2003-2005. it was a lot of fun and the fish loved to get and keep the rock.

I think I know what you mean, but can you give an example of the Hard Rock rule, and how it's administered?



Awesome.

I had heard that there are some other Vegas rooms that start action at SB, possibly the Rio, cuz I heard it was used a lot at the wsop side games. I also heard Bart Hansen talk about it on PokerRoad.

In any case, one additional problem that comes up with SB acting first is that UTG would habitually act out of turn.

Perhaps he could sell it.

Button has first option to straddle, after that UTG can straddle. On the "Hard Rock Straddle" (button), there can be two raises that everybody else has to act on before the Straddle acts. I don't know if these two raises apply to an UTG straddle, since almost everybody took the button straddle.

It's nuts, and I love it.

Larry, the sources you asked for

Cherokee Casino, Tulsa OK
5-10-25 PLO

The rock is like a traveling straddle, and it always goes to the winner of the hand, unless there is a chop then it goes in an agreed upon direction (decided by the players in a home game setting I imagine) ex. closest to blinds, or button etc.

Also a Mississippi straddle, is on the button (and i believe people after the button also have the option to do so, if the button declines) and action starts after the straddle in this case as well (to my understanding anyway), the rock is a similar idea, the only difference is obv, it goes to any point on the table, and there is no option like there is on a normal straddle or mississippi straddle, its like a travelling 3rd blind basically

Im sorry i misspoke, i meant the action starts after the rock/straddle not ON, like first to act, typo

also, i guess you could do whatever you wanted to with it, as long as the basic idea that it goes to the winner of every hand applies, but it would be something entirely different and not produce the same action or have the same strategy to playing it

Pffft. We only respect internet sources here.

No, not true.