Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Home Poker Discussions of home poker games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2011, 06:09 PM   #1
dugthefish
veteran
 
dugthefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: RUNGOOT'R
Posts: 3,049
I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

I’ve been running a weekly home game for several years now. I’ve always dreamed of having a really nice chipset, not necessarily super high-end, but something classy and above the cheap plastic slugged chips I’ve been using. After running super hot for the last few months, I’ve built my bankroll up to the point where I can afford to drop $300-400 on a nice, moderately priced chipset.

Let me begin by giving you the specifics on my game. We play $.10/25 or $.25/.50 NLHE, and mixed limit games of similar stakes. I’ve been playing for years with 11.5 gram slugged Triple Crown chips (as a side note, I will mention that these chips are far superior to any other slugged 11.5 gram chip on the market, being made of a harder plastic than the Nexgen Bee’s and similar chips), and using Dice chips as my tournament set. Given the fact my game has moved further toward the cash game side and away from tournaments, I have decided to give my cash game chips priority in upgrades.

I needed at least 5 colors of chips, as I use 5 cent chips for blinds and antes, but we occasionally get $1k+ on the table so I needed a ready supply of $25 chips. I was determined to use standard card room base colors, and I also really wanted denominated chips so I didn’t have to explain chip values to every newbie and memory-challenged semi-reg. My goal was to find the chip in this price range that was closest to the real deal high-end chips.

I ordered 8-12 sample chips of each brand from two different suppliers: The Chiproom (www.thechiproom.com) and Sidepot Gaming (www.buypokerchips.com). In addition to ordering the samples I planned on reviewing, I also ordered a few of the high end chips for comparison purposes. I also have numerous samples of low-end chips that were below the level my current chips. I did not actually measure or weight any of these chips, and any observations were made by comparison only. My basement poker room has a concrete floor, so durability was a concern. I tested all chips by dropping them from table height onto the floor a couple times. Let me just say, none of the chips passed this test. All had marred or chipped edges. If your room has carpet, you shouldn’t have any worries; as for me, I guess I’ll just have to be careful.

Just a note: these reviews are my opinion only. I am not a professional chip reviewer, nor do I have substantial experience with high-end chips. I’m just a guy, maybe like you, who is sick of cheap chips, and wants a nice chipset at an affordable price. As I have found throughout this exercise, no review or opinion can equal having the actual chips in your hand. I let a table full of my regulars play around with all these chips. Guess what? I had 10 different opinions of every chip. So once again: ORDER SAMPLES!!!


Venerati - Sidepot

Cost: $.39/chip, or about $200 per 500

Weight:
These chips felt a tad light. Compared to the “high end” versions I got, they were just light enough that if you have played with ceramics recently, or for an extended amount of time, you might notice. If you rarely or never have handled ceramics, you may not notice.

Texture:
I really liked the texture. The face had a bit of eggshell finish. You could easily shuffle them, but they still felt smooth. The edge is rounded and noticeably smoother than the face, which makes for a nice feel when picking up a stack. I only have 10 chips to work with, but I image they will stack well. They were just a tad smaller than the clay-composite samples, I would say closer to 38mm than the listed 39mm (not that I measured).

Sound:
The Venerati’s were a bit louder than the higher-end chips when shuffled or stacked, and they also had a higher pitch. They still sounded solid and were pleasant to the ear.

Looks:
The colors very classic in my opinion. All the chips had gold (not shiny or glittery, just gold colored) swirly designs in the rim. All had the same 4 narrow red-orange edgespot stripes alternating with gold diamond patterns. These same colors also appear in just on the outermost 1/16” of the rim face, giving the allusion of true edgespots. At first I thought it would suck having the all same color edgespots; but after playing with these chips for a while, I noticed how the colors really complemented each other. When you put out a $2.50 bet, the white dollars and the grey quarters look good together. So do the red $5 and the whites. A $14 bet looked really sexy. The common edgespots are what I think ties them all together. The denominations are largely printed in black on a white “inlay”, and show up very well. While these chips do not feature a denominated nickel, 5 non-denom chips are offered.

Overall:
The Venerati’s are a well-designed chip that feels good, sounds good, and looks good. My favorite aspect of these chips was how close they came to high-end ceramics. Several of my friends told me they couldn’t tell much of a difference between the two. I do not think it would be possible to be disappointed with these chips.


Cigar & Snifters - Sidepot

Cost: $.59/chip, or around $300 per 500

Weight:
A tad more heft than the Venerati, but still not quite the weight of the highest end ceramic chip I received.

Texture:
Smoother than the Vererati. About what I expect a ceramic chip to feel like. Definitely more “squirters” when you try to shuffle, but still should easily stack. They feel nice in your hand.

Sound:
The sound had a very nice ring to the ear. I could easily image a room filled with people shuffling these chips. They sounded like they had more weight to them than they did.

Looks:
The colors were pretty poker-chip-classic, bright white/light blue dollars, red/yellow $5 chips, and light blue/blue quarters. The rim features alternating the Cigar $ Snifter logo with denominations. Each edge has 4 two-stripe edgespots, also alternating with denominations. The center of the chip is recessed, and the white "inlay" shows the denomination in large red print and spelled out across the top of the inlay. All of the graphic were very sharp. Around the outer edge of the inlay, the words “Sidepot Gaming Company. Established 2003” are printed. I didn’t much care for the plug. This chips do have the entire range of denominations, from $.05 up to $100,000, including rarely seen $10, $20, and $50 chips.

Overall
These chips were not really on my list of potential purchases because of the 50% increase in cost, but I ordered samples anyway because I wanted some other ceramics to compare the Venerati’s to, and hey, who can‘t use more samples? On the whole, these were very nice chips. I couldn’t see too much difference between these and the high end ceramics, but they are a definite step up from the Venerati chips. Having a recessed center was kind of cool, I’ve never seen that in a ceramic chip before. These would likely be a very good compromise if you wanted a higher-end chip set but didn't want to spend $1k+.


Pharaoh’s - The Chiproom

Cost: $.42/per chip, or about $210 per 500.

Weight:
About the same as the high-end clay samples. A tad heavier than the clay casino chips I have laying around, but overall they had a good weight to them.

Texture:
This is really my only knock on these chips: they still feel like plastic. High quality plastic, but plastic nonetheless. Compared to Nexgen/dice/slugged plastic chips, they’re great. Compared to real clay chips, you can tell the difference. However, they didn’t have a bad feel to them at all. They just felt like what they are: Chinese clay composites. While the edges were sharp, making shuffling a tad more difficult, I’m sure after a few sessions they will break in nicely. The twelve chips I had stacked into a nice, solid stack.

Sound:
Quite a bit duller of a sound than the sharp clacking of the high-end clay, but still sounded good when being shuffled or stacked. They sounded lighter that they were, not sure if that makes sense, but there it is. Gotta fill my word count .

Looks:
Of all the clay-composite chips I received, the Pharaoh chips were the sharpest looking. The white label with large red denominations was easy to read, even from across the table. Each denomination had different edgespot designs, which I thought was cool. The base colors and edgespots matched well with each other, and with other denominations. One nice feature of these chips is a denominated $.05 chip, which I use fairly regularly for ante games, and don‘t see offered all too often. The mold is quite unique also, with the word “Pharaoh’s”, and a small Egyptian glyph molded in. All of the compression China clays chips I received were a bit "dull" in color, I think this is probably standard and will wear off. High-end clay chips are often oiled to bring out the color, and that may be the case here.

Overall:
These were my favorite of the clay-composites, hands down. All of the clay-composite chips were roughly the same weight, texture, and feel. They are all made by the same process, probably in the same plant in China. Between these and the Desert Palms, you’re really only comparing looks. But they are still a really nice chip for the price, and I don’t think you would regret choosing them.


Desert Palms - The Chiproom

Cost: $.38/chip, or about $190 per 500

Weight:
Again, about the same as the high-end samples, and the Pharaoh’s.

Texture:
My knock against these chips are the same as the Pharaoh’s: they simply do not feel like a true clay chip. That being said, they still had a nice feel to them, much better than slugged plastic. The DP’s were a bit tougher to shuffle than the Pharaoh chips, but should break in after a few sessions.

Sound:
Indistinguishable from the Pharaoh’s. Lighter and duller than true clays, but beating the crap out of el cheapo’s.

Looks:
Each chip above the $.10 chip has the same 3D14 edgespot pattern, with sharply contrasting colors. The $.05 and .10 chips are solid with no edge stripes. The words “Las Vegas” and “Desert Palms”, along with two palm trees are pressed into the molding. The denominations are a bit difficult to read on the tan background. The DP's also had the largest available number of denom's. Personally, I didn’t care for the loud colors, but I'm sure many people will.

Overall:
As with the Pharaoh’s, the Desert Palms are a good quality chip for the money, and the two really only differ in appearance. I am partial to the Pharaoh design, but it is mostly a matter of aesthetics and a very slight decline in price. The DP’s should serve any home game well for years to come.


Dunes - Sidepot

Cost: $.32/chip, or about $160 per 500

Weight:
A bit lighter than the clay-composites. These were the lightest chips I received.

Texture:
The Dunes chips I received were clearly injection-molded, and not the compression-molded clay composites I expected. They had a bit more of a rubbery plastic-type feel, far less clay-like and more along the lines of the 9 gram Nexgen Pro series chips. These chips could never be mistaken for real clay chips. They had a definite coarse pattern in the mold, again very similar to the Nexgen chips. The edges were not overly sharp, and shuffling was pretty easy right out of the box. These chips felt the least clay-like of all the samples I received.

Sound:
Again, virtually identical to the Nexgen Pro’s. Duller than the China clays, but not as annoying as slugged chips.

Looks:
These chips were pretty sharp looking. The colors were bold, and the edgespots contrasted well with the base colors. All the denominations featured the same 4A18’ish edgespot design, which is coincidentally is the exact same design as the Nexgen Pro series. The labels were white, with the Dunes logo and the denomination printed in red. The denom’s were a bit on the small side, but easy enough to read on the white background. The mold was attractive, featuring the Dunes logo repeated 4 times around the chip.

Overall:
The Dunes series chips I reviewed were definitely more in line with the Nexgen plastic chips. In fact, compared side-by-side with my samples of the Nexgen Pro series, the two were indistinguishable. Same weight, texture, and edgespot pattern, with differences only in mold design, colors, and labels. They are still a decent chip, better than slugged plastic, but they are a step down from the Chinese clay-composites I reviewed. In this reviewer’s opinion, these chips do not belong in the mid-range category. They are a very high quality version of a low-end chip, and thus are severely overpriced. As a note, these chips are reportedly available as a Chinese clay, as opposed to the injection-molded versions I received. That would put them most likey on the same level as the DP's and Pharaoh's. Just make sure you're getting the compression-molded and not the injection's.


8V Clay Composite - The Chiproom

Cost: $.32/chip, or about $160 per hundred

Weight:
The same as the other clay-composites. What more can I say?

Texture:
Same as the others. Much better than the Chinese Knock-Offs reviewed below. Chips stacked, shuffled and felt very similar to the Pharaoh’s and DP’s: sharp edges which will likely wear down, but clean, straight stacks.

Sound:
No noticeable difference from the rest of the Chinese clays.

Looks:
Colors were quite nice, actually. The edgespots had a bit different color scheme than I’ve seen in other chips, with each chip having 8 V’s of alternating color. The mold is called a reverse S, and is pleasant to the eye. The center is recessed to allow application of labels. A word of warning with these chips: the recessed center on one side of each chip is very slightly stepped down. What I mean by this is the outer most 1/8" of the recesssion is (just) noticeably higher than the center. This may or may not be hidden by label application.

Overall:
These chips were kind of an impulse buy, and I’m glad that I picked a few up. They were a much better chip than the Chinese Knock-Offs, on par with the DP’s and Pharaoh’s. If you are looking for unlabeled or non-denominated chips, I think you will find these are decent enough chips for the price.


Chinese “Clay Knock Offs” - Sidepot

Cost: $.32/chip, or about $160 per 500

Weight:
The weight felt about the same as the high end chips, and the rest of the compression clays for that matter.

Texture:
Better than Nexgens, don’t get me wrong, but you can still easily tell they are made of a non-clay material. The edges are sharp, with several chips having slight mars on the very edge. They were also not a uniform size, even among the same colors. These chips were quite difficult to shuffle and to tricks with. I think they would likely wear down with time to become easier to handle, as with the rest.

Sound:
Again, no difference from the rest. A lighter sound than true clays.

Looks:
They don’t look terrible. They do use a Paulson scheme, after all. The edgespots appear almost painted on: in some spots they come up short of the edge of the recess, and in others they sit almost 1/8” past. The colors also look a bit faded, and the orange chip looked almost pink with it’s plum and purple edgespots. The center is recessed for labels.

Overall:
Not impressed. For a slight increase in cost, you can get yourself a much better chip. I imagine that these chips will be similar coming from different distributors and under different names.


Conclusions

At the very top of my list are the Venerati ceramic chips. I was absolutely blown away by the quality of these chips, and their nearness to the feel of the high-end ceramics. The Chinese compression-molded clay-composites were all of similar quality, with the Pharaoh’s coming out as my personal favorites. The Dunes chips and the Chinese “Clay Knock-Offs” were at the bottom of my rankings, due to issues noted. There are a couple of mid-range chips I did not review, notably the Dunes compression-molded and the ProGen80 series, so if anyone wants to put up an addendum, that would be cool. Hopefully this will be helpful to other home game hosts like myself who feel a bit overwhelmed and lost when trying to decide between Lucky Bee's and custom ASM's. Good luck, and don't forget:

Spoiler:


Dug

Last edited by dugthefish; 09-10-2011 at 06:18 PM.
dugthefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 07:49 PM   #2
Schmendr1ck
(╯°□°)╯︵ 🐟
 
Schmendr1ck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 6,555
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Excellent review!
Schmendr1ck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 08:16 PM   #3
dugthefish
veteran
 
dugthefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: RUNGOOT'R
Posts: 3,049
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

^^ ty sir. and a big ty to eneely for the idea, and for previewing it for me.

yeay me, i finally contributed something to 2p2 besides sarcasm and one-liners!
dugthefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 08:21 PM   #4
razztapes
old hand
 
razztapes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: TN
Posts: 1,641
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Got a sample of the veneratis as well. Was super close to getting them before I decided to get the asms. Agreed whole heartedly about getting samples, it really changes everything. I think the veneratis are an excellent value at that price, also Stephen or stephon (cant remember the guys name from sidepot) was gonna give me 10% off so don't be afraid to make an offer to these guys.

R
razztapes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 08:25 PM   #5
RichGangi
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RichGangi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Unearned income my a**!
Posts: 8,459
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

I got the Dunes compression moldeds from thechiproom for 28/each. Loving them.
RichGangi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 08:35 PM   #6
dugthefish
veteran
 
dugthefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: RUNGOOT'R
Posts: 3,049
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichGangi View Post
I got the Dunes compression moldeds from thechiproom for 28/each. Loving them.
great price. i ordered from the chiproom after i ordered from sidepot, so i got the injection Dunes. do you know if there is any differece between them and the other china clays? supposedly, they are all interchangable as far as quality, and the only choice to make is which do you think looks best.
dugthefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2011, 11:47 PM   #7
ChickenNuts
journeyman
 
ChickenNuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: white room
Posts: 369
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugthefish View Post
great price. i ordered from the chiproom after i ordered from sidepot, so i got the injection Dunes. do you know if there is any differece between them and the other china clays? supposedly, they are all interchangable as far as quality, and the only choice to make is which do you think looks best.
I got samples of the Pharaohs, Dunes compression/china clay and Dunes injecto----the Dunes compression chips are identical to the Pharaoh, but the injection/plastic chips are just like Nexgens and I agree with your assessment that they are not even remotely close to the quality/feel of either the Dunes or Pharaoh china clays.

Thanks for this---super good work and ought to be linked in the FAQ / sticky!

Oh---a light dab of mineral oil on the edges of the Pharaohs and Dunes china clays really makes the colors pop out---IMO the difference is huge. Some folks disagee, but....
ChickenNuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 12:20 AM   #8
gedanken
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
gedanken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: <--clowns, jokers-->
Posts: 6,283
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

wow, beautiful post, sir! Thanks for putting the time into it and for sharing what you found.


I have a few footnotes. Hope it doesn't sound like I'm arguing with your post or anything...


Quote:
Originally Posted by dugthefish View Post
My basement poker room has a concrete floor, so durability was a concern. I tested all chips by dropping them from table height onto the floor a couple times. Let me just say, none of the chips passed this test. All had marred or chipped edges.
Interesting test. I don't usually think much about this issue. Did any of them suffer "better" damage? I personally think chipped ceramics look pretty damaged, while chipped clays can look more pleasingly weathered. Broken in half is never appealing, though.



Quote:
no review or opinion can equal having the actual chips in your hand. I let a table full of my regulars play around with all these chips. Guess what? I had 10 different opinions of every chip. So once again: ORDER SAMPLES!!!
no doubt.



Quote:
Cigar & Snifters - Sidepot
these are an abomination. The cigar and snifter is an old-school familiar CLAY chip feature. Putting it on a ceramic chip is fugly and heresy, not to mention potentially deceptive marketing.




Quote:
Pharaoh’s - The Chiproom
Of all the clay-composite chips I received...

8V Clay Composite - The Chiproom
The same as the other clay-composites. What more can I say?

[...etc]
You use the word "clay" a lot, especially as "clay-composite". I don't have a really good alternate, but feel compelled to wince whenever I hear "clay" applied in any sense to a chip that isn't compression molded. Marketers use that term to confuse costomers in an attempt to get them to buy inferior chips. I don't like to support that.

(And fwiw, I always thought "composite" was simply absurd.)

Quote:
All of the compression China clays chips I received were a bit "dull" in color, I think this is probably standard and will wear off. High-end clay chips are often oiled to bring out the color, and that may be the case here.
Compression-molded chips are far more porous than china clay..., uh, injectopression chips. Oiling makes a big difference in the look of a Paulson, ASM, or BCC chip, but the injectopressions already have a hard smooth surface, so oil won't make nearly as much difference. [edit -- just read chickennut's post, and interesting that you single out the edges. The edges on all chips seem to be more porous than the faces for some reason, so it may be that oil is especially helpful on the edge]

Quote:
The DP’s were a bit tougher to shuffle than the Pharaoh chips, but should break in after a few sessions....

...sharp edges which will likely wear down
I'm not sure they'll behave like a true clay chip. I was told that the acids and oils in our hands actually dissolve away clay chips (slowly) giving them that soft, rounded shape that looks so lovely. I haven't handled china clays enough to know if they do this.

Clay chips can be amazingly soft. You can use them like a hard colored pencil on a piece of paper. I just grabbed a "spirit" mold china clay on my desk and it does the same thing, so maybe they will wear in nicely.



Quote:
Chinese “Clay Knock Offs” - Sidepot


Looks:
They don’t look terrible. They do use a Paulson scheme, after all.
So a few years ago, Paulson responded to some retail interest and released a line of chips for the home market. Now, most of Paulson's customers are casinos, and it's very important to the industry that edge spots are not duplicated on two casino's chips, and ESPECIALLY not on chips available to the public.

So for these home-market chips, Paulson had to choose colors and spots that a) hadn't been used before, and b) weren't likely to be requested by a casino any time soon.

That, to me, explains how they came up with a purple chip with purple and green spots, or green chip with green and pink, or... They serve the purpose of being unique and having at least one contrasting color in there somewhere, to be kind.

Of course, once those chips went out with the Paulson name on them, a lot of people (ie, chinese factories looking to coattail), adopted the color scheme as if it were some sort of standard. That's my guess about how these chips got those colors.

Quote:
don't forget:
Spoiler:

Last edited by gedanken; 09-11-2011 at 12:29 AM.
gedanken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 12:56 AM   #9
dugthefish
veteran
 
dugthefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: RUNGOOT'R
Posts: 3,049
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by gedanken View Post
Interesting test. I don't usually think much about this issue. Did any of them suffer "better" damage? I personally think chipped ceramics look pretty damaged, while chipped clays can look more pleasingly weathered.
the injectomolded dunes chip was the least damaged. the compression molds all suffered some minor edge damage, while the ceramics did in fact chip after a few drops. i initially wasn't going to even do damage tests, it was kind of a spur of the moment thing. since i wasn't going to actually destroy them, i probably should have left this out.

Quote:
these are an abomination. The cigar and snifter is an old-school familiar CLAY chip feature. Putting it on a ceramic chip is fugly and heresy, not to mention potentially deceptive marketing.
sidepot gaming claims ownership of the cigar and snifter
Quote:
Quote from Sidepot
...our wildly popular cigar and snifter clay chip mold...
so i guess they can do what they want with it. i can't argue with another man's opinion, but they did feel very nice, and were reasonably priced. aesthetics are a highly subjective topic...

Quote:
You use the word "clay" a lot, especially as "clay-composite". I don't have a really good alternate, but feel compelled to wince whenever I hear "clay" applied in any sense to a chip that isn't compression molded. Marketers use that term to confuse costomers in an attempt to get them to buy inferior chips. I don't like to support that.
i tried to use terms that many neophyte chipsters would be familiar with, and i am far from an expert. "clay" probably shouldn't be applied to any chips currently produced, from 5 cent dice chips to paulsons, as i am of the understanding none of them are actually made from clay anymore. my understanding is that all of these middle-grade chips (ceramics and plastic dunes excluded) are made of a clay-like (or clay-composite) material, and compressed into a mold. assuming most are made in china, i used the terms "clay-composite" and "china clay" interchangeably to mean "clay-composite, compression-molded made in china". i learned years ago that if a chip is injection-molded, there will always be an injection pimple somewhere on the chip. i couldn't find such a spot on any of the "china clay" chips i reviewed, so i assumed they were compression molded. if i am wrong, please correct me, and i apologize if my ignorance has caused any confusion. one of my goals in this thread is to be as accurate as possible.

Quote:
(And fwiw, I always thought "composite" was simply absurd.)
composite: synonyms: combined, mixed, melded, synthesized, blend, combo, commixture, complex, compost, compound, conglomerate, fusion, intermixture, medley, mix, synthesis, union

it would seem this is a proper term for the clay-like material that is used for some poker chips. its not clay, its not plastic, i haven't a clue what is actually is. some kind of composite...


Quote:
Compression-molded chips are far more porous than china clay..., uh, injectopression chips. Oiling makes a big difference in the look of a Paulson, ASM, or BCC chip, but the injectopressions already have a hard smooth surface, so oil won't make nearly as much difference. [edit -- just read the post above mine, and interesting that you single out the edges. The edges on all chips seem to be more porous than the faces for some reason, so it may be that oil is especially helpful on the edge]

I'm not sure they'll behave like a true clay chip. I was told that the acids and oils in our hands actually dissolve away clay chips (slowly) giving them that soft, rounded shape that looks so lovely. I haven't handled china clays enough to know if they do this.

Clay chips can be amazingly soft. You can use them like a hard colored pencil on a piece of paper. I just grabbed a "spirit" mold china clay on my desk and it does the same thing, though, so maybe they will wear in nicely.
we need someone who has had some of these for an extended period of time to report on this. after the damage tests, i really do think they will wear down after time.

Quote:
So a few years ago, Paulson responded to some retail interest and released a line of chips for the home market. Now, most of Paulson's customers are casinos, and it's very important to the industry that edge spots are not duplicated on two casino's chips, and ESPECIALLY not on chips available to the public.

So for these home-market chips, Paulson had to choose colors and spots that a) hadn't been used before, and b) weren't likely to be requested by a casino any time soon.

That, to me, explains how they came up with a purple chip with purple and green spots, or green chip with green and pink, or... They serve the purpose of being unique and having at least one contrasting color in there somewhere, to be kind.

Of course, once those chips went out with the Paulson name on them, a lot of people (ie, chinese factories looking to coattail), adopted the color scheme as if it were some sort of standard. That's my guess about how these chips got those colors.
interesting. that makes a lot of sense, i guess just seeing paulsons at online chipstores made me think it was the standard.

Last edited by dugthefish; 09-11-2011 at 01:20 AM.
dugthefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 01:06 AM   #10
dugthefish
veteran
 
dugthefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: RUNGOOT'R
Posts: 3,049
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by razztapes View Post
Got a sample of the veneratis as well. Was super close to getting them before I decided to get the asms. Agreed whole heartedly about getting samples, it really changes everything. I think the veneratis are an excellent value at that price, also Stephen or stephon (cant remember the guys name from sidepot) was gonna give me 10% off so don't be afraid to make an offer to these guys.

R
i linked this thread in an email to them. keep giving it compliments
dugthefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 02:01 AM   #11
DrStrange
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 814
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Keep in mind that used paulsons are often found in this price range. The chiproom's sales can be even more tempting.

Oh, and no one says you only need one chip set -=- DrStrange
DrStrange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 05:37 PM   #12
gedanken
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
gedanken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: <--clowns, jokers-->
Posts: 6,283
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugthefish View Post
sidepot gaming claims ownership of the cigar and snifter so i guess they can do what they want with it.
I guess I have to eat my words. I can't find any reference to cigar and snifter chips before sidepot started making them. Still, their first use of it was on classic-looking clay chips, and the 2d graphic version looks awful to me. And it is highly reminiscent of the old Pauson standby "tophat and cane".



Quote:
"clay" probably shouldn't be applied to any chips currently produced, from 5 cent dice chips to paulsons, as i am of the understanding none of them are actually made from clay anymore.
I don't think any poker chips ever were really made from clay. There might be a trace of something you could call "clay" in some chips, but it was always a misnomer.

Quote:
my understanding is that all of these middle-grade chips (ceramics and plastic dunes excluded) are made of a clay-like (or clay-composite) material, and compressed into a mold.
Ceramics excluded, all these chips are plastic, from dice to Paulson's. The material is very similar between the various chips. There may be some secret ingredients mixed in, but basically, they are all a thermoplastic like ABS.

The important difference is the how they are molded. Injection molding is a time-tested, highly efficient manufacturing process. It runs with a continuous supply of plastic and is highly automated. This is how dice chips and all their variants are made.

"china clays" are an attempt to adapt the injection process to produce a more "clay-like" poker chip. The equipment is modified to increase the pressure, and some tinkering is probaby done with the material formula. With the increase in injection pressure, a better mold imprint is made.

"true clay", or compression molded chips are manufactured on fundamentally different equipment. Chip material is placed in mold "cups" which go into a hydraulic press which generates something on the order of 300,000 psi of pressure. Under the resulting heat, the plastic becomes liquid again, and the spots and inlay become incorporated into the chip. An extremely high-resolution imprint of the mold is achieved. Compression molding undoubtedly gives the manufacturer more ingredient options, since the stuff doesn't have to go through the injection equipment. ASM mixes brass filings into their chips, for example.



Quote:
composite: synonyms: combined, mixed, melded, synthesized, blend, combo, commixture, complex, compost, compound, conglomerate, fusion, intermixture, medley, mix, synthesis, union
yeah sure, it's polystyrene combined with a label, or you could say it's styrene combined with more styrene to form the polymer... There's dyes and who knows what trace ingredients mixed in there... but absolutely everything is a "composite" under this usage, so it becomes meaningless.


Quote:
after the damage tests, i really do think they will wear down after time.
It could be, but the take-home message I got from the expert at Spinettis was that the "wear" is not small chips and abrasion that slowly erodes the edges away. Instead, the material is literally dissolving in your hands. If the material in china clays is actually similar to the true clays, this should still happen.

Or the "dissolving" story could be hooey. It does fit a couple facts: the oldest chip I have is extremely evenly worn. It doesn't look like a heavily damaged, chipped-away relic, it looks like an ice cube that's been floating in a glass of water for a few minutes. Also, the way the color comes back when you oil them might be related. As you use the chip and dissolve away the surface, you're leaving the least-soluble material at the very surface. Adding oil draws those soluble materials back to the outer layer.
gedanken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 06:46 PM   #13
stevea
grinder
 
stevea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 432
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

How about hot stamped solid clays from pokerchipsonline.com?

Have you been to chiptalk.net yet?
stevea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2011, 07:44 PM   #14
gizeh68
journeyman
 
gizeh68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 263
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

I will be purchasing a set of Pharaohs for my home games within the next month or so. I ordered a sample set of them and just totally fell in love with them. Great chips for the money.

I also have a small collection of real Paulsons and of course they are the best, but who can really afford them. The Pharaohs are the next best thing.
gizeh68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 08:11 AM   #15
nobuke
journeyman
 
nobuke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 243
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Does anyone know a european online store who carries the pharaoh china clay line?
I've been looking for a long time now and haven't yet found any. I really like the chips but only need the .05's and .25's so not enough to justify the overseas shipping costs.
nobuke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 08:44 AM   #16
lanyi
Pooh-Bah
 
lanyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In line to board the HP Rungoot
Posts: 5,399
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Chances are if you do find a local vendor costs will be about the same as buying in the states + shipping, and you also need to be weary of questionable vendors selling knock offs (yes, even china clays have cheaper knock offs).
lanyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 10:52 AM   #17
Aidan
Kroenke Out
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: back trying to make it
Posts: 24,066
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

*sigh* really looking forward to upgrading to Venerati's in the future... maybe i'll start raking my game to get some

nice review of all the options in this price range, might I second inclusion in the faqs?
Aidan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 03:06 PM   #18
Schmendr1ck
(╯°□°)╯︵ 🐟
 
Schmendr1ck's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 6,555
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan View Post
maybe i'll start raking my game to get some
Schmendr1ck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 05:06 PM   #19
The Palimax
Livin' the dream as a Carpal \'Tunnel
 
The Palimax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,638
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugthefish View Post
The Chinese compression-molded clay-composites were all of similar quality, with the Pharaoh’s coming out as my personal favorites. The Dunes chips and the Chinese “Clay Knock-Offs” were at the bottom of my rankings, due to issues noted. There are a couple of mid-range chips I did not review, notably the Dunes compression-molded and the ProGen80 series, so if anyone wants to put up an addendum, that would be cool.
I'm fond of the ProGen80. I find them quite comparable to the rest of the China Clays. I don't find as much variation in them -- or at least I don't find them as notably different. I prefer them, primarily, because they're generic. I don't have to adopt an Egyptian or fantasy Vegas theme.
The Palimax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2011, 09:57 PM   #20
dugthefish
veteran
 
dugthefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: RUNGOOT'R
Posts: 3,049
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevea View Post
How about hot stamped solid clays from pokerchipsonline.com?

Have you been to chiptalk.net yet?
i lurk a bit at CT, haven't posted or really done much other than search for chips i was already interested in. if you have some, and they are of comparable price, feel free to add a review of your own to this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan View Post
*sigh* really looking forward to upgrading to Venerati's in the future... maybe i'll start raking my game to get some

nice review of all the options in this price range, might I second inclusion in the faqs?
i ordered 1000 Venerati's last night....$400 shipped. i feel like a kid a week before Christmas lol. will post pics when they arrive

Quote:
Originally Posted by gedanken View Post
Ceramics excluded, all these chips are plastic, from dice to Paulson's. The material is very similar between the various chips. There may be some secret ingredients mixed in, but basically, they are all a thermoplastic like ABS.

The important difference is the how they are molded. Injection molding is a time-tested, highly efficient manufacturing process. It runs with a continuous supply of plastic and is highly automated. This is how dice chips and all their variants are made.

"china clays" are an attempt to adapt the injection process to produce a more "clay-like" poker chip. The equipment is modified to increase the pressure, and some tinkering is probaby done with the material formula. With the increase in injection pressure, a better mold imprint is made.

"true clay", or compression molded chips are manufactured on fundamentally different equipment. Chip material is placed in mold "cups" which go into a hydraulic press which generates something on the order of 300,000 psi of pressure. Under the resulting heat, the plastic becomes liquid again, and the spots and inlay become incorporated into the chip. An extremely high-resolution imprint of the mold is achieved. Compression molding undoubtedly gives the manufacturer more ingredient options, since the stuff doesn't have to go through the injection equipment. ASM mixes brass filings into their chips, for example.
so all the chips reviewed above are injection molded...well, i have no problem admitting when i'm wrong. thank you for the correction. i'm a bit curious, if you know, how they get multi-colored edgespots when they inject liquid into the mold?

Quote:
yeah sure, it's polystyrene combined with a label, or you could say it's styrene combined with more styrene to form the polymer... There's dyes and who knows what trace ingredients mixed in there... but absolutely everything is a "composite" under this usage, so it becomes meaningless.
well, i'm sure we can agree that it is mostly a term used to confuse us poor idiots and get us to buy inferior products

Quote:
It could be, but the take-home message I got from the expert at Spinettis was that the "wear" is not small chips and abrasion that slowly erodes the edges away. Instead, the material is literally dissolving in your hands. If the material in china clays is actually similar to the true clays, this should still happen.

Or the "dissolving" story could be hooey. It does fit a couple facts: the oldest chip I have is extremely evenly worn. It doesn't look like a heavily damaged, chipped-away relic, it looks like an ice cube that's been floating in a glass of water for a few minutes. Also, the way the color comes back when you oil them might be related. As you use the chip and dissolve away the surface, you're leaving the least-soluble material at the very surface. Adding oil draws those soluble materials back to the outer layer.
well, i can report that the colors of the chips will transfer when rubbed together or on other objects. this would lead me to believe that the edges will wear down with time. again, we need someone who has a 3 year old set of china clays to report on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Palimax View Post
I'm fond of the ProGen80. I find them quite comparable to the rest of the China Clays. I don't find as much variation in them -- or at least I don't find them as notably different. I prefer them, primarily, because they're generic. I don't have to adopt an Egyptian or fantasy Vegas theme.
i have 2 or three of these chips i got with some sample sets a few years back. i didn't have enough of them to do an actual review, but they seemed a little bit harder, plastic-wise, than the china clays. not nearly as bad as the cheap injections, but not as soft as the china clays. that being said, they seemed like decent enough chips to me. i have heard one knock on them is that they are too thick to fit 20 chips in a rack (according to discountcasinogear.com). can you confirm or dispel this?
dugthefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2011, 10:16 AM   #21
Aidan
Kroenke Out
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: back trying to make it
Posts: 24,066
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugthefish View Post
i ordered 1000 Venerati's last night....$400 shipped. i feel like a kid a week before Christmas lol. will post pics when they arrive
Lol, Im jealous!! I have a birthday coming up, so some subtle hints are going to be dropped in the month leading up to it, and maybe I can get my hands on a small set. Looking forward to pics though (chip angel one time?).
Aidan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2011, 12:05 PM   #22
eneely
newbie
 
eneely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 9,791
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugthefish View Post

i ordered 1000 Venerati's last night....$400 shipped. i feel like a kid a week before Christmas lol. will post pics when they arrive
You will like them. They are not quite as good as Chipcos, but much closer to top-of-the-line ceramics than China clays vs Paulsons in the compression category. For the money, they are the best value in a ceramic chip I have ever seen.

They have always received good reviews when we have played with them. The person who owns them does not host, so unfortunately we don't get them on the table too often. Only when someone hosts who doesn't have chips, or when we need a second set.

What demons and quantities did you order?
eneely is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2011, 01:47 PM   #23
Tjmj90
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,051
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Great Review, much appreciated

Also, Couldn't agree more about the Venerattis
Tjmj90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2011, 05:29 PM   #24
dugthefish
veteran
 
dugthefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: RUNGOOT'R
Posts: 3,049
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by eneely View Post
What demons and quantities did you order?
as i said before, we play (depending on the crowd) .10/.25 or .25/.50 NLHE. we also play some stud games, generally .25/.50 limit, with .05 ante and .10 bring in. this necessitated the need for a 5 cent chip. we occasionally get 2 full cash tables going, so i need enough chips to cover 18 players. i also want enough chips for higher stakes games, if and when i can find enough players to play $.5/1 or $1/2. with this in mind, my chip breakdown is as follows:

100 Blue NDV ($.05 chips)
160 $.25
340 $1
300 $5
100 $25

starting stacks for .10/.25 or mixed games (assuming $30 buy in) is generally:

10 $.05
14 $.25
26 $1

over $30 get you $5 chips, and the 6th player to buy in generally just gets $1's and $5's. we like having lots of chips on the table, so i generally have all my $1 chips out by about the second hour of play .

will post pics ASAP. just got an email from sidepot, chips shipped today. hoping they show up by thursday. GO UPS!!!!
dugthefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2011, 05:30 PM   #25
dugthefish
veteran
 
dugthefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: RUNGOOT'R
Posts: 3,049
Re: I'm tired of cheap chips, but I can't afford Paulsons...A Mid-Range Chip Tour

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan View Post
(chip angel one time?)
lol nice
dugthefish is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online