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Old 07-18-2011, 02:56 PM   #1
Mahowny
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How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

At one of my regular games last Friday a bit of a disagreement developed over the term "3 BET".

We were playing NLHE. Post flop Person A bets about two thirds the pot, Person B raises and it comes to me. I re-raise and one of the players exclaims that if I "4 BET" the pot I must have a monster. Another player, also not in the hand, remarks that he can't see how that can be termed a "4 BET" as only 3 actions had taken place, bet, raise & my re-raise and that my action should be labeled a "3 Bet".

That made sense to me but the comment was made that after watching hours of the WSOP Main Event coverage over the past several days, it was pretty routine that a person making a raise of an initial post flop bet was labeled as "3 BETTING". I have also seen this series of events on the WSOP coverage and the professionals that are commentating have called the raise of an opening bet "3 BETTING" the pot.

I looked online and found a definition that dealt with pre-flop betting where the mandatory big blind was considered a bet, first to bet an amount higher than the big blind was considered the second bet and someone raising that bet was making a "3 BET". I couldn't find anything that really dissected post flop rounds and how the terms "3 BET" or "4 BET" where determined or defined.

Anybody have a clear answer and explanation? We want to include this in an upcoming episode of the Top Pair Home Game Poker Podcast (www.toppair.net).
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Old 07-18-2011, 02:59 PM   #2
The Palimax
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

It's much easier to think of this in limit-poker terms, where one-bet, two-bets, three-bets, four-bets/cap (or maybe 5/cap) seems straight-forward.

Three-bet is synonymous with re-raise.
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:39 PM   #3
evilbooyaa
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

Post-Flop: Bet = 1, Raise = 2, Re-Raise = 3
Pre-Flop: BB is the Bet, which is the cause of your confusion. Like guy above me, 3-bet started as a limit term and seems to have shifted (perhaps inappropriately) to NLHE.
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:53 PM   #4
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilbooyaa View Post
Post-Flop: Bet = 1, Raise = 2, Re-Raise = 3
Pre-Flop: BB is the Bet, which is the cause of your confusion. Like guy above me, 3-bet started as a limit term and seems to have shifted (perhaps inappropriately) to NLHE.
This, although I wouldn't say it is inappropriate.

Should this action in your example had occurred preflop, then you 4-bet, since it was postflop, you 3 bet. The forced bet, or big blind, it still a bet for counting purposes.
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Old 07-18-2011, 04:14 PM   #5
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

Yup... 3-Bet = re-raise


First bet after the flop... a bet.
A raise of that bet... a raise. If TV called it a 3-bet, then they are wrong. Perhaps in that case, that person has re-raised preflop, and they were referring to that person as the 3-better preflop.
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Old 07-18-2011, 06:18 PM   #6
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

3 bets made = 3-bet. Someone's either

a) paying too much attention to poker announcers or

b) needs work on their counting skills.
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Old 07-20-2011, 10:37 AM   #7
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

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Originally Posted by Lottery Larry View Post
3 bets made = 3-bet. Someone's either

a) paying too much attention to poker announcers or

b) needs work on their counting skills.
In the case of pre-flop, it's a fairly common confusion because people tend to forget that the Big Blind counts as the first bet even if it's mandatory. I've run across this a number of times when I've mentioned a three bet, and people give me confused looks.
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:11 PM   #8
Mahowny
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

Turns out my example was in error.

My fuddled memory failed me. It was pointed out to me, when one of the actors read this post, that the specific scenario I outlined happened PRE-flop so the above explanations fall into line with what happened - Sorry.

Look for a retraction, correction and mea culpa in an upcoming episode.
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Old 07-20-2011, 06:08 PM   #9
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

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Originally Posted by Mahowny View Post
Turns out my example was in error.

lining up, fondling my club, for the beating ritual.
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Old 07-20-2011, 10:26 PM   #10
broken_nz
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

In some of the games i've played in: A 3-bet is the action a player takes when faced with a raise when they have Aces or Kings!
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:33 AM   #11
Dr Phibes
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

Pre flop the BB is a bet and a reraise is a 3-bet.
Post flop the bet is zero until someone bets. If it is raised, it is a reraise, a 3-bet. Just my interpretation probably not the correct one.

Last edited by Dr Phibes; 07-21-2011 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 07-21-2011, 08:03 PM   #12
tycho_bray
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

I officially turn in my nit club membership card.

Spoiler:
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:24 PM   #13
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

Um, if it's the third bet in a row, it's a 3-bet.

Preflop: BB (bet 1), raise (bet 2), re-raise (bet 3)
Postflop: someone bets (bet 1), raise (bet 2), re-raise (bet 3)
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:10 PM   #14
Dr Phibes
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdleeman View Post
Um, if it's the third bet in a row, it's a 3-bet.

Preflop: BB (bet 1), raise (bet 2), re-raise (bet 3)
Postflop: someone bets (bet 1), raise (bet 2), re-raise (bet 3)
Posting a BB is no more a bet than checking (betting zero) post flop

Preflop: call,call,call, raise, 3-bet

Postflop: check, check, check, bet (raise from zero), 3-bet.

Quote:
silly argument unless boredom is ruling your lives
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:23 PM   #15
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Phibes View Post
Posting a BB is no more a bet than checking (betting zero) post flop

Preflop: call,call,call, raise, 3-bet

Postflop: check, check, check, bet (raise from zero), 3-bet.
epic fail.
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:50 PM   #16
Dr Phibes
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

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Originally Posted by Rottersod View Post
epic fail.
"epic" is a bit harsh
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Old 07-25-2011, 06:20 AM   #17
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

Quote:
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"epic" is a bit harsh
Really? OK then, how about just "Fail"?
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:58 PM   #18
Lottery Larry
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottersod View Post
Really? OK then, how about just "Fail"?
Has my vote
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Old 07-26-2011, 11:40 AM   #19
The Big K
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottersod View Post
Really? OK then, how about just "Fail"?
I vote epic fail. Because we all know a 3 bet is a bet of 3. 3, 3-hundred, 3-thousand, 3-hundred-thousand, etc.
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:16 PM   #20
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Re: How do you define what constitutes a 3 BET?

Played at a local bar tourney the other day and the dude next to me kept referring to preflop raises to 3 BBs as a 3 bet and raises to 4 BBs as a 4 bet etc. So this inability to comprehend the lingo is pretty common.
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