Hey guys, this situation has happened to me a couple times, and I would love some opinion.

It goes like this:

I'm in a hand, its a very close spot on the river, and I'm debating between a call and fold. I am sitting there thinking out loud, and I know what I need to do, so I flip my cards over, not for any angle, but just to see the board and help myself think. At this point my opponent flips over their cards, and announces their hand.

Each time this has come up, I have been behind, so I cant say that I've laid down a hand I would have won, because I was leaning towards a fold. But at the same time, I find it hard to call a hand when you know you are behind, especially in a close spot. I don't feel like I'm braking any ethical rules, but it is a home game, and I understand unwritten ethics are a little bit tighter.

Should I make the calls, even though its my opponent's mistake? Should I be allowed to fold? In my home games, I am generally the strongest player, so that plays a bit of a factor too, and also my opponents are usually beginning to intermediate players.

Try not flipping your cards over. Smh.

As your opponents show theirs when you show yours, I think they assume it's a fold on your part. People show their hands in our game all the time (especially to their neighbors)...and no one assumes its a fold unless you say so or muck your hand. Same action...different results.

I would verbally clarify what you are doing and then turn over your hand...no matter what, clearing raising isn't an option!

1) Stop doing that.

2) If they show their hand they are likely assuming that the hand is over, so they probably aren't expecting you to call. But...

3) Stop doing that.

I can imagine how this thread would have looked if the original poster had been from the other player's perspective.


Hey guys, this situation has happened to me a couple times, and I would love some opinions.

It goes like this:

I'm in a hand, the villain seems to feel it is a very close spot on the river, and is debating between a call and fold. He is mumbling to himself and then tables his hand. I think he is calling and flip over my cards as the winning hand.

Now that it is clear villain was going to lose the hand, he says he is folding. I know I should be waiting for villain to put his chips in the pot, but I didn't want to be "that guy" who slows the game to a crawl. I feel like an idiot who got angled - even if the outcome was technically within the rules.

I guess I should learn from this mistake and wait until the chips go in before tabling my hand. Should I keep playing in this sort of game? Should I advocate for villain to be ejected if he keeps pulling this sort of angle shoot? It seems like villain wins all the time, could he be cheating some way? It is all so slimy. It makes the game irritating rather than fun. What should I do about this?


I can not tell from the original post if this is intended as some sort of angle shoot or not. We don't know the general tone of the game or how things go. Maybe people commonly turn over their cards "to think". My bias is to assume angle shoot by the best player vs the weaker ones at the table, but perhaps not. <shrug>

As should be clear, this sort of legal but dodgy behavior is bad for the game and bad for Hero's continued participation in the game. Even if Hero's intentions were not questionable, they will feel questionable to the victim. As a player extracting money from the game, it is your responsibility to be "good for the game" not a potential problem. Stop doing these sorts of things.

You shouldn't flip your hand over like that. You don't need to see the hand face up to help decide. I would think its a bad play by you. If you really need to flip your hand over, announce it at the table so the other guy understands it.

I think Dr Strange laid out a great perspective. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you aren't angle-shooting, but it sure as heck can look that way to everyone else at the table.

I also can't help but wonder what "I'm generally the strongest player" means, considering you are faced with so many tough decisions that you need to mumble to yourself and flip over your cards to help you "see the board and help myself think".

I do not understand this part. How does it help you decide on an action in the hand? I am presuming that you well-versed enough in the game to peek at your hole cards, look at the board, and deduce what you have. If that's the case, then you're not turning your cards over to determine how strong your hand is, but to help you decide whether to call or fold. I can't see how helps you one bit. I would suggest putting some thought into why you REALLY feel you need to turn your cards over to arrive at that decision, and whether it's worth it or not, because you are causing problems at this game whether you can admit it or not.

Some people are very visual. It is not that op does not know what he has, but when he sees it as a complete hand he thinks differently. He sees things more clearly when he literally sees things.

Note I understand the why. Does not mean I condone op,s actions.

I'm an experienced home game and casino player. I can't tell if you flipping your cards over indicates that you are calling or folding. I've seen it done both ways, as well as a player trying to "get a read". I don't think I've ever seen it done so that a player can better read their own hand. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are telling the truth.

I can't say whether you are obligated to call, or allowed to fold. I don't know your home game rules. In most casinos, I think you'd be allowed to fold.

I will echo the other suggestions made:
1. STOP doing that.
2. STOP doing that.
3. STOP doing that.

IMHO, home games are supposed to be fun and as far away from stressful as possible. Why stress out yourself and at least one other player over unclear actions? Learn to do your thinking without exposing your cards. Don't be the guy that's thinking about every call for a minute. A minute is a very long time at the poker table. You should be considering your options depending on their actions even before they act.


PS STOP doing that.

Obviously, you need to quit effing doing that.

But, if you really can't stop doing it for some reason I can't understand, then announce to the other player that tou are turning tour cards over to help make a decision and that you haven't made a decision yet. Make it crystal clear that the hand isn't done yet.

But mainly, just stop doing it. If a player did this at my game more than once he wouldn't be invited back.

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Happened to me in a live game---villain had the nuts & turned his card over without throwing a chip in or stating call. Dealer ruled it a fold since the villain hadn't clarified his intention. I also showed.

Regardless, you should stop doing it.

It’s also worth pointing that the person making the call about the validity of this move is going to be a home game host, not a professional floor at a casino. You might end up killing a live winning hand.

If it ever happened in my home game I would immediately break in and ask "Why did you do that? Are you calling or folding?

Then I would ask him to please not do that again.