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Home game confusion Home game confusion

08-05-2021 , 11:20 PM
So I play a weekly bar tournament for $20 that runs between 20 and 30 players. I'm obviously just playing recreationally, and I'm friends (or friendly) with most everybody there. But here, I'm heads up with a guy I don't know very well.
I had entered heads up down a bit, but had drawn it to about even. Villain was dealing and small blind, and he goes all in preflop with A2o. I call with J2o. Flop is dealt king high, the turn is a jack, and the river is a blank. I count my stack, he counts his, we're dead even, so I shake his hand and say "hate to do it that way, good game." I stay at the table to pick up the cards and chips, and tell the organizer that we're done. He asks if we chopped, I say no, I won. Villain walks over to the organizer, tells him that he won, and takes first place money. I walk over, organizer asks me if I took second, I say no, I won, obviously confused. Villain says "like hell you did." I said the turn was a jack, and I grab the top of the deck which was an ace next to a two, a jack next to a two, a king and a jack a card or two apart. I try to reason or figure this out, but he just shoves the money in my chest, says "money means more to you people (I'm 40 or so years his junior)," and walks out. So, a couple of questions.
One, what can I do differently here? He dealt the hand, I didn't think it was necessary to say that I won. Obviously if we had a different amount of chips, the issue would've come up while the cards were face up, but I can't do anything about this. Obviously someone else should've been watching the hand, and I mentioned that after, but the guy absolutely has to know what he's dealing, and you don't expect something like this to happen.
Also, what do I do next week? I expect both of us are going to come back. This is a pretty friendly game. I don't want to badmouth the guy, but also I have no respect for him now. He acted like a moron and a child. I can keep my mouth shut, but can everyone else involved? How does this not come up again?
Anyways, if anyone's been in a similar spot, would love to hear how it played out.
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08-05-2021 , 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atinat

So I play a weekly bar tournament for $20

I stay at the table to pick up the cards and chips, and tell the organizer that we're done.

He asks if we chopped,

I say no, I won.

Villain walks over to the organizer, tells him that he won, and takes first place money.
An extra 'enter/return' makes that a lot more readable for next time.

Organizer is a bar employee that holds the money, but does not watch or get involved? I don't play these things (although they sound like fun) and assume that a player sets up, collects money and gives it to the O to hold.

I suppose they have no interest in fighting with anyone, but after asking and being told that you won, why does he let the other guy take the winning share?

Re: Villain. A lot depends on if they really think that they won (missed your pair beating their Ace high), or if they just tried to steal the difference in payout.

I think I'd have a brief conversation with some other players and the organizer and let them know your side, as it's possible that they will hear from Villain and his side.

I don't think I've ever played a tourney (friendly or casino) where there weren't people watching to see who won. If you remember who else was there, maybe you can ask them what they saw. Is there any chance that you didn't make a pair?


Finally, I'm not sure if this will stay in this forum. There is a Home Games forum that it probably where this would have gone a couple years ago. HG has been quiet lately, and maybe mods/admin will leave this here. This forum is usually reserved for Casinos and Licensed Cardroom discussion.
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08-06-2021 , 12:43 AM
Yeah sorry, I wrote this while it was fresh, so my formatting could have been better.

The organizer is also a player, as again this is a really friendly game and there's not much concern about anything happening under the table. This organizer took over right before Covid hit (and the game stopped for several months), and I have to say I'm not thrilled with the job he's doing.

I do not believe the other guy was trying to cheat me. The difference was like $20. He's also known to be fairly wealthy. I think he stormed off because he realized that he was wrong, and didn't want to admit it. But that's just a guess, and not a particularly charitable.

I didn't leave the room for a while (I was in quite a huff, and didn't want to drive right then, so I sat for 15 minutes or so). The organizer heard my side.

There were 5 people total in the room when it happened, including involved parties. The organizer and another were helping clean up, I asked but neither saw the hand. There was also an old (80+) year old man in a wheelchair who I thought was watching, but he wouldn't comment.

There's a chance, of course, that I was wrong, but I remember that feeling of hitting my card, and it was there near the others in the mucked deck (which obviously isn't foolproof, as I didn't grab the cards with the intent of preserving the order of anything, but increases likelihood). I wished I remembered the whole order, but I was only watching for a jack. I know there was no chance of a straight on the river, so there couldn't have been a ten or a queen. The only thing I could've missed is if he actually hit an ace, but then wouldn't he have said so?

Last edited by Atinat; 08-06-2021 at 12:48 AM.
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08-06-2021 , 01:45 AM
If you look up, "signs someone is lying", almost every list will have at or near the top, "Overly emotional/dramatic response to being called out". So I wouldn't lose sleep that you misread the hand, he just wanted to get away with something and got caught lying.
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08-06-2021 , 12:20 PM
This is a simple matter of communication. Someone (we assume it was him, but then again, you are telling the story, so you are telling us what you saw) misread the hand, and it wasn't resolved when the cards were still out. I have seen this happen plenty in live poker, even after the dealer pushes the winning hand up.

When a hand is dealt, make sure the correct winning hand is identified and called out. Make sure it is understood where the chips are being pushed. Do this every time and it won't seem obnoxious.
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08-06-2021 , 05:04 PM
Slighty confusing situation but since you got paid, would try to move on with minimal discussion.

If asked about it, you can acknowledge that someone may have misread a hand and/or made an honest mistake and you will be more careful next time to avoid misunderstanding.

Its also possible other player got flustered for some other reason, and was too embarrassed to say he got 2nd when asked. Not really thinking about the money. Or a little drunk, who knows.

So if you think that's the case you can make a point to say how well he played and you "got lucky" might help soothe any buised feeling / ego

If you aren't 100% you were good or know exactly what happened offering to chop is also fine - it sounds like a friendly game.

Last edited by monikrazy; 08-06-2021 at 05:10 PM.
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08-06-2021 , 11:35 PM
I'm still trying to figure out the payout structure where a $400+ prize pool can have only a $20 difference between first and second
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08-06-2021 , 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove
I'm still trying to figure out the payout structure where a $400+ prize pool can have only a $20 difference between first and second
A pretty flat one lol. 21 players and maybe 6 rebuys, so $540, minus rake (which is steep), paying out 7, and $130 up top. No one is playing to beat the game (though the last organizer didn't have it quite so flat).
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