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Is this action/speech considered a call or a fold Is this action/speech considered a call or a fold

09-29-2023 , 08:17 AM
Small cash friendly home game. Deep. Very deep. 600bb effective.
On the river villain shove 400bb, slightly under pot.

Hero counts a call infant of him, thinks for a long while then say:
Ok, take my money. and open is hand in front of him. Maybe some chips were pushed forward during the hand reveal.

So is it a call?
What will be the ruling in a casino?
Is this action/speech considered a call or a fold Quote
09-29-2023 , 08:32 AM
I think the action would be the dealer saying "sir, please clarify your action." It is neither a call nor a fold as described, unless some chips actually were pushed forward. In that case, it is definitely a call. But "take my money" is not a valid action, and revealing your hand heads-up isn't either in most rooms.
Is this action/speech considered a call or a fold Quote
09-29-2023 , 08:36 AM
The spoken statement is ambiguous and could mean either fold or call depending how people choose to interpret it.

Same with revealing the hand and „accidentally“ moving some chips.

In a friendly game for little money I don’t assume the person is going to use this as a purposeful angle, but it has all the signs of a potential angle shoot.

Casino will probably rule at the floor’s discretion depending on circumstances and previous history or house rules. In a Home Game it’s up to the host to make a decision.
Is this action/speech considered a call or a fold Quote
09-29-2023 , 10:48 AM
Is it a call? It depends.
Home game, so a lot will depend on their specific rules/culture.


Hero sounds like an ass.
"Maybe" pushed some chips forward?
Didn't say "call" or "fold"?


In a casino... depends on their specific rules (betting line, forward motion).
Perhaps one of the better casino dealers would clarify the action before V acts?
Is this action/speech considered a call or a fold Quote
09-29-2023 , 05:14 PM
ofc we are only seeing the action from one POV, but this this seems 100% an angle. Not illegal, but depending on how friendly a friendly game it is, this is either a baller OG move or an extremely stern warning (and if it's not this guy's first rodeo, I'd simply put him out on the spot).

In my very friendly game where we protect bad/inexperienced players (which is most all of them, and they know it!), I would have practically dove over the table to prevent V from acting on Hero's angleshot. But if it was a room of 20-ish boys full of bluster, or a room of try hard pro wannabes, this could be seen as OK. Or perhaps OK-ish.

My take may be harsh, but as a host of an actual friendly home game, I have zero tolerance for this kind of BS. But again, context matters.
Is this action/speech considered a call or a fold Quote
10-12-2023 , 02:34 PM
If chips pushed, it is a call. But the hero saying take my money as he flipped the cards up, I would say thats a call.
Is this action/speech considered a call or a fold Quote
10-23-2023 , 12:19 AM
Much depends on the players and prior history. How much booze and pot are involved also matter. Also matters if this is a no-rake true home game or an underground game run for profit.

The story looks fishy without more context. "Hero" putting chips out to call in front of him isn't clear where those chips actually are. Behind his hand might be viewed differently from the calling chips are in front of his hand. Also not clear what it means "Maybe some chips were pushed forward during the hand reveal."

If villain has shown his hand, Hero has put the host in a difficult position - We can't let Hero see if he wins or not before deciding if the action was a call or fold or mere "table talk". I would rule this a call by Hero unless there are more circumstances we don't know about that should be considered.

Note this could go in strange directions if host rules it a call and then villain shows down a loser. Villain might advocate Hero's action was a fold. Its a tough spot for the host. Lots of ways to make people unhappy / angry.
Is this action/speech considered a call or a fold Quote
12-08-2023 , 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Redstone
and open is hand in front of him.
The rules at the cardroom casino vary depending on whether its a soft or hard line. You can generally push your chips around as you want until you start dealing with the line.

"OK take my money" isn't a call. That could mean a fold as much as a call since they have money already in the pot.

Pushing chips kind of towards line but not crossing/touching it isn't a call either.

That said, it's a home game. The host should be calling out people for this kind of trash angling. You want to keep people coming back then you shouldn't want people treating others terribly.

Also, that said, in a casino, the floor makes a ruling. Few places show you their rules. They're not going to change their mind. They aren't always consistent. The host usually makes a ruling on this and what they say is what counts. It's kind of why in a home game you try to avoid situations like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sw_emigre
My take may be harsh, but as a host of an actual friendly home game, I have zero tolerance for this kind of BS. But again, context matters.
This is really the answer. You're not making money from it. It's your place that gets beat up if there's a fight. You're the one who has to find new players if people quit because someone is a butthole. Sounds like you run a good game.
Is this action/speech considered a call or a fold Quote
12-09-2023 , 11:00 AM
Quote:
Pushing chips kind of towards line but not crossing/touching it isn't a call either
This is not accurate at most casinos. If the betting line is considered a "hard line," it is, but most casinos that have tables with lines consider that a courtesy line that helps clarify things, but not a boundary. With a "soft line" the rule is still usually that pushing chips forward is considered action.
Is this action/speech considered a call or a fold Quote

      
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