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Old 05-06-2018, 08:06 PM   #1
One Ayed Jack
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Help with Tournament Structure.....

I run a tournament (been running solid for 13 years), and we just decided to bring antes into the mix.

Everyone starts with 5000 in chips. Reds are $5, Green $25, Black $100, Purple $500, and 1 yellow chip to start at $1,000.

All rounds are 30 mins.

Round 1 - $5/$10
Round 2 - $10/$20
Round 3 - $25/$50
Round 4 - $50/$100
Round 5 - $100/$200
Round 6 - $200/$400
Round 7 - $300/$600
Round 8 - $500/$1000
Round 9 - $1,000/$2,000
Round 10 - $2,000/$4,000

Game rarely gets to round 10 and Usually ends in round 9.

We would like to add antes into the game, starting in either round 5 or 6.....

Thoughts? How would you do it? How would they progress?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-06-2018, 08:37 PM   #2
psandman
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by One Ayed Jack View Post
I run a tournament (been running solid for 13 years), and we just decided to bring antes into the mix.

Everyone starts with 5000 in chips. Reds are $5, Green $25, Black $100, Purple $500, and 1 yellow chip to start at $1,000.

All rounds are 30 mins.

Round 1 - $5/$10
Round 2 - $10/$20
Round 3 - $25/$50
Round 4 - $50/$100
Round 5 - $100/$200
Round 6 - $200/$400
Round 7 - $300/$600
Round 8 - $500/$1000
Round 9 - $1,000/$2,000
Round 10 - $2,000/$4,000

Game rarely gets to round 10 and Usually ends in round 9.

We would like to add antes into the game, starting in either round 5 or 6.....

Thoughts? How would you do it? How would they progress?

Thanks in advance!
What is your goal in adding antes? Making the structure faster or slower?
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Old 05-07-2018, 03:01 PM   #3
ChanmanPoker
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

I think that antes are typically 1/8th of the BB. So at level 5 you can introduce a 25 ante.

Round 1 - $5/$10
Round 2 - $10/$20
Round 3 - $25/$50
Round 4 - $50/$100
Round 5 - $100/$200/25
Round 6 - $200/$400/50
Round 7 - $300/$600/75 or 100
Round 8 - $500/$1000/100 or 150
Round 9 - $1,000/$2,000/200 or 250
Round 10 - $2,000/$4,000/500

This will speed up your game significantly though, so you may want to increase the time for each blind level to compensate.
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Old 05-08-2018, 07:54 PM   #4
One Ayed Jack
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

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Originally Posted by psandman View Post
What is your goal in adding antes? Making the structure faster or slower?
So, here's my thought process:

In the 200/400 blind level with about 10 minutes left to go, there seems to always be a "mass exodus" of players. I was thinking that by adding "antes" it would either force a little more action pre-flop (making things go faster) or force the typical "mass exodus" players to rethink limping in every hand in the early rounds. Or, it would do both.

In the end, I definitely don't want to slow the tournament down. It already takes 5+ hours to complete.

All in all, I'm not even 100% sure why we're thinking of the change. To be honest, someone mentioned it at our last game and then everyone seemed to agree that we should have antes....
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Old 05-08-2018, 08:29 PM   #5
psandman
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by One Ayed Jack View Post
So, here's my thought process:


All in all, I'm not even 100% sure why we're thinking of the change. To be honest, someone mentioned it at our last game and then everyone seemed to agree that we should have antes....
The value of antes are that they allow you to fine tune the structure. Before you decide to make a change you should decide what your objective is.

As for the mass exodus at a particular point, I'm not certain there is a solution to that. If you speed up the structure you probably just change the point it occurs.
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Old 05-10-2018, 12:37 PM   #6
sw_emigre
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

If you search this specifc forum for antes, I'm sure you'll come up with a bunch of threads. My guess is many if not most will say don't bother. We tried it once and won't go back. In self-dealt home games it's just too confusing, and while it may speed up the bust-outs, it def slows down the # hands/hour.

GL
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Old 05-15-2018, 11:04 AM   #7
YoungGrimmm
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

We did the same thing at my home game for a 3 month trial period last year. The game didn't wrap up significantly sooner (or later to be honest) and quite often it became a huge pain in the a$$ to figure out who had and hadn't anted up. Once people would have a few drinks into them guys splashed the pot all the time so we dropped it and went back to our no ante formula. I like the long running game though, my friend! My monthly home game is 2 small buy in NLHE tournies and small stakes cash games ($25 with one rebuy allowed in the first 30 minute blind level if you get coolered badly) and has been running since 2002 (we're actually just getting golf and T-shirts made up this year to celebrate that) and has grown from 5 or 6 guys/game to an average of 32 guys per game. Nobody loses too badly ($100 would be a slaughter) and in all the years and new faces that have joined in I've only ever turfed one guy. All the best in keeping your game going for many more years! Some of my closest buddies now are guys that I've met through poker, I hope you have the same experience. Sorry for the derail...
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:30 PM   #8
antialias
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

Quote:
In the end, I definitely don't want to slow the tournament down.
Do a button ante (player on the Button pays the equivalent of one BB as ante for all). The casino I sometimes go to has switched from regular antes to button ante and it works great. For 6 or less players the button ante is reduced to a SB.

It's a lot faster than having everyone count out antes. No hassle calculating what percentage of blinds the antes are. You also have to make change a lot less often.

Generally with an ante in the mix play tends to be a bit more aggressive (steals and resteals becomes more prevalent) .
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Old 05-23-2018, 04:09 PM   #9
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

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Originally Posted by antialias View Post
Do a button ante (player on the Button pays the equivalent of one BB as ante for all). The casino I sometimes go to has switched from regular antes to button ante and it works great. For 6 or less players the button ante is reduced to a SB.

It's a lot faster than having everyone count out antes. No hassle calculating what percentage of blinds the antes are. You also have to make change a lot less often.

Generally with an ante in the mix play tends to be a bit more aggressive (steals and resteals becomes more prevalent) .
So when there is a dead button one player gets to pay the antes twice?
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:00 PM   #10
antialias
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

Quote:
So when there is a dead button one player gets to pay the antes twice?
IIRC in that hand ante is skipped. It's definitely not that one player pays twice (that I would remember).
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:13 PM   #11
psandman
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

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Originally Posted by antialias View Post
IIRC in that hand ante is skipped. It's definitely not that one player pays twice (that I would remember).
If you have the big blind post the ante you don't have to worry about it.
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:25 PM   #12
antialias
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

Same problem with the big blind ante. If the player in the big blind has only 1 BB left then you have no ante (or you have the big blind player automatically busted? That'd make no sense to me. If he has between 1 and 2 BBs...what part is his bet and what part is for ante?)
Anyways the situation of a dead button is just so rare - and I don't even see how it could be abused.

I'd not be opposed to a big blind ante. Either option changes the dynamic, though. If you are short-stacked and you have to worry about big blind, small blind and then button ante in the next three hands you're more likley to shove.
If you have to worry about big blind + ante and then small blind in the next two hands I'd expect you'd be vastly more likely to shove.

Some resent this change in dynamic, but I think it's no better or worse than ante-per-person. It's just slightly different. A big blind ante would likely require a bigger change in strategy (can't say definitely...don't have first hand experience with that.)

What I do know is that the improvement in game speed from regular ante to big blind ante is definitely noticeable to the point where I think there's no difference to playing with no antes.
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:34 PM   #13
psandman
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

It's not that it can be abused. It's that it's not necessary to simply have a hand with no ante. If a player is all in on the blind and can't post the ante you have ante but it is a natural occurrence for a player who is all in to not have to put up more chips than they have. The only unnatural thing is posting the blind before that antes (but it obviously makes more sense than to have the player be all in and only be able to win his ante back)
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Old 07-07-2018, 11:29 PM   #14
BigBlue56
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

IF an ante is used, I really like the idea of a single player posting it.

IF a single player posts it, I really like the idea of it being the BB.

TBH, I've gone back and forth on what to do if a player can't post a blind and ante. I'm not sure what the TDA rules say, but someone here knows (or already posted and I missed it).

FWIW, I'm not bringing in the ante without a better reason than "we should have an ante".
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:49 PM   #15
Black Aces 518
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

The mass exodus might be addressed by having a smoother structure. Playing 5/10 with 5000 chips means that most of the pots that level are meaningless. Then you double the blinds the next level, then more than double them the level after that.

The drawback is that since you are playing meaningful pots in L1, some people will bust earlier. Your crowd may like the "safety" of playing a meaningless 500 BB deep level to "get their money's worth."
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Old 07-18-2018, 02:08 PM   #16
Bene Gesserit
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Re: Help with Tournament Structure.....

In most (non raked , not underground) friendly self dealt home games you will likely find that individual antes can often cause needless delays and confusion. A BB matching size ante eliminates most of that stuff. That is of course if you insist that an ante is required to help out some problem with your structure. Be sure that this last point is valid.
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