Hey all,

I've hosted a lot of home tournaments before ranging from 1-4 tables and am pretty comfortable with how to run a tournament for more experienced players.

But I am trying to get advice on a new project.

I'm hosting a tournament for a bunch of newbs. It is VERY low stakes rebuy and I want the game to be fun for both beginners and experienced players. I expect between 12-20 players. I want the tournament to last less than 5 hours. I understand the formulas for what blinds would be at the end of a tournament to make sure it ends at a certain time.

What I am wondering is if it better to build the structure so that the average stack ALWAYS has 25-40 BB to ensure lots of action and have a more slowly escalating blind structure? Or should I just let the blinds ramp up pretty quickly at the very end (I'm not in love with this because it seems like the end of the tournament shouldn't just be a luck fest - but maybe newbs won't care).

My structure as of now:
Buy in: $5 for T500 or $10 for 1000 (option)
Rebuy: $5 for T500 anytime at 500 or less chips, $5 for T500 or $10 for T1000 in the first 2 hours
Add on: $5 for T1000 at the 2 hour break

Blinds
5-10 0:00
10-20 0:20
15-30 0:40
20-40 1:00
25-50 1:20
30-60 1:40
BREAK - rebuys over, add on period, color up red chips
50-100 2:00
75-150 2:30
100-200-25 3:00
150-300-50 3:20
200-400-50 3:40
300-600-100 4:00
400-800-100 4:20
600-1200-200 4:40
1000-2000 5:00

Should I be right to expect an average stack of 2,500 chips after the break?

Is the add on of $5 for T1000 WAY too rewarding? Or does it not matter because it is a tourney for newbs?

Is this too slow of a structure for newbs to enjoy (ie will the tournament last too long)?

Since you asked the last question, do you really expect a group of newbs (and I'm not sure how newby these folks really are) to want to participate in a 5 hour tournament?

Also, how tight a ship you plan on running with a complete group of newbs? It could turn into a never-ending series of rulings on matters that would be very trivial to more experienced players.

I don't know about the average stack expectancy. With rebuys it's so hard to know. Depends on how gambley they are.

As for the add-on, go for it. It gives them a good safety net. And getting lots of chips in play is fun for everyone.

I find new players like quick tournaments. More like 1-2 hours. You could fit a couple of those in with a nice break between. That would mean rethinking the entire structure. Maybe include a special chip worth one rebuy or add-on, and get the money up front. It will make your job easier as host, and will cap the number of chips in play. That will make things much more predictable.

Thanks to both of you for the replies. From the conversation I have with these guys I take it that they have played enough poker to THINK they know how to play poker but are still inexperienced enough that they would likely be the kind that are shocked that the average game has preflop raises most of the time. Or that things like string bets and chop pots will be foreign ideas to them.

Can you really have a 1-2 hour tournament if there are 15 people? I mean I understand that it is possible but I think these guys are "experienced" enough that they wouldn't mind playing for 4+ hours if they are getting close to winning.

Oh yeah, sorry about that. I was thinking single table.

Fooling around with Blind Valet a little, it looks like the blinds don't smooth out at all until you play 3.5 hours, going with one rebuy/add-on. You might play with the settings yourself to see what you think.

Rebuy Tournament

Starting Stack: 1000
Rebuy Chips: 1000
Addon Chips: 1000
Players: 15
Duration: 3.5 hours

Created by the Blind Valet structure creator at http://blindvalet.com

Five hours is too long for newbs. Four hours is too long for newbs. Three hours is probably too long for newbs.

Think about learning to play the piano. When you start, a half hour daily is maybe all you can tolerate. Then over the years the practice time gradually lengthens. You're able to tolerate more.

It's about the same with studying. Students don't generally start out putting in 5 hours each night in a study session. But by the time you're in grad school, in order to be competitive, you need to have built up a tolerance for studying.

What I'm saying is any learning effort that requires concentration requires self-discipline and you gradually build up tolerance for self discipline.

Ramp them up quickly at the end. Make it end sooner. You may savor a five hour tournament session but you're not a newb.

Fine.

Cut the rebuy time to an hour or less.

Make the add on for the one hour break. Make the add on $5 for T500.

I don't know.

I think it's twice as rewarding as it should be.

Yes.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

I would be a big fan of starting with 3,000 chips and 25/50 blinds and 20-minute levels and a $10BI. Blinds would be 25/50, 50/100, 100/200, 200/400, 300/600, 500/1k, 1k/2k, 2k/4k (you can do this with 600-800 chips and 5/10 blinds initially, if that works for your tournament set). Tourney would be over in 2.5 hours. Set them up again for anyone who wants to play another. You will lose a few early, but they will start dropping off at 1.5 hours and having them stick around for a second tourney should not be a problem.

If you are really concerned about losing players for a second tournament, then just pay the top three in the first tourney the same amount. When the fourth place player is out, then the top three are paid and the second tourney begins (In an example of 15 players at $10, then each of the three would get $50). The second tourney could be played out to the end.

With a bunch of newbies and re-buys and add-ons, you will spend your entire night explaining the rules, giving re-buys, giving add-ons, and changing out chips. Give yourself a break. Have them buy-in, give them a card to tell them what seat they are in, and step back. All you need to do is balance tables and change out chips.

That being said, if you take any advice from this thread, it should be that newbies do not have any desire for a 5-hour tourney. Many of the people in this forum have had regular 18-24 hour sessions at some point, but 99% of the population gets bored with poker after 2 hours.

Good Luck!

I actually like this!! After months of playing with my boys. Cash game minimum $20 BI with Sb & Bb set at 50 cents... I'll be hosting a single table tourney this weekend.. Can you please help with a structure so that it's fun for all? I also plan to set a point system with a side pot. 1st gets 3 points 2nd gets 2 and 3rd 1 point. First player to 30 points takes a nice pot..

Here's an idea that goes a little further with that. Assuming you have extra chips to use and obviously an open table, get a small cash game going for the players who bust. It might help to keep people around rather than waiting for another hour or two for the second tourney to start.

I do have extra chips but no additional table.

I would like to also have rebuys,add-ons and a point system (to keep players wanting to play tourney since all we do is play cash games at minimum $20 BI).

Not sure what the buy in, rebuys or ad on should be. I'm thinking: $20BI, $15 to the tourney and $5 to the side pot (for point system) $10 re-buy and 10 or 5 add on. What you think?

Starting Stack 3k
Rebuy 1,500
Add on 1k or 500

Well personally I never cared for having a bunch of rebuy/addon options so I'm not the best to ask. It always seemed a bit gimmicky to me and can get complicated very quickly. If it's a $20BI with a $10 rebuy/addon, I'd rather just make it $30 no rebuy/addon and be done with it. The buyin/rebuy structure laid out by the OP:

If I were trying to set up a game for newbies/beginners as he is doing, I would get rid of all of at that. To explain that to someone with little to no poker experience would be confusing IMO. If you are going to do rebuys/addons though, just make it a simple structure with only one option (i.e. BI = $10; RB/AO = $5).

As far as your point system side-pot goes, it might work to keep people into tournaments. One thing I'd be worried about is if not everyone able to play in every tournament it hurts their chances and something like that could flame out real fast. Perhaps you could wait on that. During your first tourney while you guys are taking a break, suggest to everyone your idea for a points system and gauge the interest. As always, the best source for what will work in your home game is the people that play in your home game.

This what I set in place, what you think? Buy-In: $15+5 3k Starting Chips
Rebuy: $10 - 2k Chips
AddOn: $5 - 1k Chips

•There will be Unlimited Rebuys up till the end of the 4th Level.

•Add-On, you will get 1 add on. You have up until the end of 4th level to decide. At start of 5th level all Rebuys and AddOns are done.

Seems fine.

Are you planning on playing in this tournament? I'm guessing with the amount of people that you probably will. Your first four levels are 38 minutes total. In that time period, you are going to have an original buy-in (maybe with an add-on, I'm not sure what the +$5 was for), re-buys (unlimited), and an add-on. Most of your players will be for $30-$35ish.

Just hit them up for $30, give them 3,000 chips and 30 minute blinds and have a $10-$20BI cash game for everyone that gets busted out. If you don't think that they can focus for 4-5 hours, make it $20 and 20 minute blinds and run two tournaments and save the cash game for another night.

It's your game so you decide what to do, but in my experience (based on running 200+ tournaments over the last 20 years), you are putting way too much thought into this. The best action is almost always to take their money, give them some chips and a chair, and step back and let them enjoy themselves.

Good Luck!

Good point. I used to over-analyze these games. Now I just fire up Blind Valet, fill in the blanks and let her rip.

So I had the tourney last night and it turned out great, however I busted in 5th out of 9 bad all in call but I was frustrated with the dumb calls these guys were making..

My question to you guys is, how the f am I suppose to go in to a game with a strategy and get called by donkeys when I 3 bet while they hold bs cards and get out flopped...

How should I go in to the next game vs these donks

If you are getting your money in good, you should welcome that. You have to embrace the variance. I'll admit, that is a challenge for me, too.

I do welcome it because had I hit the flop on numerous occasions I would've killed them. Unfortunately for me I busted on a bull**** all in call by me... I was frustrated by that point though...

Going forward do I become a very tight aggressive player? Only play suited connectors and face cards? Help a dude out? I feel like I'm so much better than these donks to lose like that!! Mind you the winner was a donk!!!

Unfortunately, the best player doesn't win every time (hence the term variance). If he/she did then poker would lose a lot of its appeal. But I digress. I don't know anything about your poker ability/skills. Based on what you said above though, if you made a bad all in call because you were frustrated (tilt), and you do this frequently, then work on not tilting as opposed to any technical aspect of your game. Easier said than done though. That is a topic for a separate thread though. Plenty of "how to not tilt" threads on here.

Thanks bro... You have a point... I guess I'll just go back to playing suited connectors and face cards smh...

Pocket pairs 10s and up

If your game is good, don't change anything and it will work out in the long run. You can't get emotionally involved in the game. At the end of a session, I'm much more upset about playing something incorrectly than whether I win or lose. There have been many nights where I leave a game up $1k and all I can think about is the hands that I played incorrectly. There have also been many nights where I've walked away down $1k and been very happy with my play.

It sounds lame, but just go into the game and be ready to lose all the money you have on you. Only when you don't assign any value to the chips in front of you can you play your optimal game.

And, like everyone else said, if you are a better player then it is fantastic that somebody else won. Being a bad player and still winning is the entire basis for the popularity of poker. It is the most critical part of the game.

I think you're missing the essence of poker, which, in my opinion, is outplaying your opponents. In order to do that, I think you need to "read" their hands.

What you're doing is focusing on your own cards... and that's fine for a newb... better than nothing... you do want to have the best hand at the showdown... but what really matters is how your cards compare to the cards your particular opponents are holding (or opponent is holding).

In order to do that, you need to have a good estimate of what cards your particular opponents are playing in a particular situations... easier said than done... but that is where the poker skill element comes into play.

Just my opinion.

Buzz