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View Poll Results: Was it a fold
Yes 1 33.33%
No 2 66.67%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-26-2018, 12:37 AM   #1
Mackbet5
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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Forward Motion Ruling

Hey guys,

First post on the forum because I really want to hear the opinions of others outside my home game.

Here's what happened:

Heads up, Villain is on the button, Goes Check Bet Call on the flop ad river. We are playing Short Deck so a Flush beats a Full House.

Board A 10 8 A 7 Wth 4 diamonds.

On the river I shove trying to rep the flush. Villain is visibly tilted as he thinks his full house is now beat by a rivered 4 flush. He stands says a couple things and then verbally says "**** you have me beat" and lightly tosses his hand face-up onto the table. I now snap show him my bluff and begin to scoop the pot.

Now it's tricky, villain claims that he didn't fold and we mearly "showing me his hand to get a read", and that he was actually going to call and that his cards never went into the muck.

I claim that by verbally saying "**** you have me beat" and then proceeding to toss your card face up right after is considered forward motion and a fold, thus why i snap showed him my bluff.

So essentially i believe it was forward motion and a fold and he thinks his cards were still live.

I'd love to hear some other thoughts,

Cheers and vote below to give me a better idea!




Side note: The toss only went as far as his chips but because he was standing behind his chair the distance the cards travelled was much greater then if he were to be sitting.
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:47 AM   #2
BigBlue56
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Location: The Garden State
Posts: 2,617
Re: Forward Motion Ruling

This was my response on the other thread you started.

If it was a true home game, it belongs here and you should ask the mods to lock the other thread.

If it was in a legal card room or legal casino, then you should ask the mods to lock this one.

Quote:

House and room rules vary. In our home games, it's no action. In a casino or proper room, they should have rules.

Absent other information/rules I'm not calling that a fold as played. Not ruling it a call either. Action is on V/BTN.

What would make me rule it a fold?
-- He says "I fold."
-- He tosses the cards face down into the muck.

Everything else in the middle is subject to a ruling, assuming the rules aren't clear.

You failed to protect your action. Some would accuse you of angling to get his hand folded. There was no reason to 'fast roll' your hand and show right away. Wait for his hand to be mucked, then show your bluff. If you had a winner in this case, I'm not awarding you the call either. He has not acted, you essentially bet and showed.

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Old 07-26-2018, 01:22 AM   #3
Mackbet5
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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Re: Forward Motion Ruling

Will do, i was unaware.
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Old 07-26-2018, 01:42 AM   #4
DrStrange
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Re: Forward Motion Ruling

I'll start by saying this is my opinion in a home game like I run - you know the same 30 people playing together for years with a few new players each year and a handful of "once in a great while" players. If this is an underground or commercial card room then the ruling goes by how the floor/owner says it goes.

Count me in the maybe camp. A lot depends on what we know of the players and their history. If one guy has a shady history of angle shooting and the other one doesn't, then he loses.

If we don't have a problem child at the table, then much depends on the way the action feels at the table. This isn't something we can easily capture in a thread. More so if the author of the thread is one of the parties involved.

Hero holds a great deal of fault in this case. Fast rolling a bluff has all sorts of ways to go wrong - like in this case we might decide the hand wasn't over when hero exposes his hand.

I lean towards saying the exposed villain hand is still live, but everything depends on the history of the players and the feel of the table as events unfold.

Bottom line, don't do this again to avoid potential problems.

DrStrange
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