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Old 05-09-2011, 01:32 AM   #1
TrvChBoy
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Ethics of the Flashed Card

Home cash game I am UTG with AQ in my hand. During the dealing, the BB flashes his cards to me accidentally, and I notice. I am 95% sure I saw AJ in the BB's hand.

It is my turn to act. What do I do?
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Old 05-09-2011, 01:58 AM   #2
theATOMbomb
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

Raise to 3x the bb and trap the **** out of him postflop if the ace comes.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:20 AM   #3
avaholic
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

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Originally Posted by theATOMbomb View Post
Raise to 3x the bb and trap the **** out of him postflop if the ace comes.
Ummm...no. At least not IMO.

Not sure if this is correct, but I tell the BB to be careful with his cards and announce that I saw them. Not sure if that is the correct thing to do, but that's how I would handle it.
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:32 AM   #4
trainrex
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

[QUOTE=TrvChBoy;26494495]Home cash game I am UTG with AQ in my hand. During the dealing, the BB flashes his cards to me accidentally, and I notice. I am 95% sure I saw AJ in the BB's hand.

It is my turn to act. What do I do?[/QU


1) the BB looked at his cards at the wrong time, he is supposed to wait to its his option to raise.

2)AQ is a poor hand UTG, maybe you just fold because now you are totallly focused on BB hand and yours, what about the players?

3) It is good NLHE ethics to advise the player to better protect his hand, but his messy play (looking too soon and revealing his hand) is costing you potential money and he may even accuse you of trying to see his hole cards, so its a bad situation.
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:34 AM   #5
trainrex
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

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Ummm...no. At least not IMO.

Not sure if this is correct, but I tell the BB to be careful with his cards and announce that I saw them. Not sure if that is the correct thing to do, but that's how I would handle it.
Then you got the BB and the rest of the table wanting the same information.
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Old 05-09-2011, 08:18 AM   #6
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

I fold and pull BB aside after the hand and tell him that you saw his cards and folded a hand that dominated him, and let him know that if you saw them then someone else might have who wouldn't be so kind and to better protect his hand going forward.

I mean I wouldn't do something like that in a casino, but in a friendly home game, especially if I was hosting, I would.
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Old 05-09-2011, 11:25 AM   #7
cgeorg
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

1) Make standard raise (LOL at thinking about open folding AQ UTG in any home game I've played in, or folding your hand because another player doesn't know how to protect his hand).
2) Nudge BB, say that he needs to be careful looking at his cards, you think you can see them sometimes.
3) ???
4) Profit.
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Old 05-09-2011, 01:56 PM   #8
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

^ this. People need to shield their own cards. Just tell him he's doing it too high after the hand.
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:27 PM   #9
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

But the ethical question isn't against him necessarily, it's against all the other players at the table. You now know something everyone else at the table doesn't. Maybe you call out what you think you saw? Good question imo, OP.
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:49 PM   #10
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

I still make my raise but let him know that I saw his cards and he needs to protect them better in the future.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:48 PM   #11
DavidNB
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

If the dealer deals in such a way that you see a card, then it is proper to speaker up and anounce what you saw.

If a player fails to protect their hand when looking at it, then its their problem.
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:36 PM   #12
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

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If the dealer deals in such a way that you see a card, then it is proper to speaker up and anounce what you saw.

If a player fails to protect their hand when looking at it, then its their problem.
This is what we do.

If anyone sees a card during the deal we speak up and the card is dead.

If someone happens to see someone elses hand after the deal because he didn't shield his cards properly it's their own fault.
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Old 05-09-2011, 08:46 PM   #13
BigBlue56
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

I let the BB know I think I saw his cards, and play like I usually would.


NOT THE CASE HERE, but if the dealer flashes cards while dealing, treat as exposed and misdeal the hand when you see the 2nd (I think that's RROP ruling).


In one game, we have players who don't look at their cards carefully. A couple guys were suspected of peeking, and possibly sharing that info (cousins). They don't get invited anymore. One used to slouch when the across from certain dealers (and often sat across from the loose dealers). Yes, we instructed the dealer to be careful.


I'm the guy that speaks up when cards are flashed dealing, and when the bottom card on the stub is flashed. Working on getting the gang to be more careful. Have tried to introduce the cut card, without much success.
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:21 PM   #14
Lottery Larry
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

This one always causes me a problem. I always let people know what the hand was, after it's over... but I never know what to do for sure during the hand.


I think I raise, then let everyone know afterwards.
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:45 AM   #15
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

If it's an old man who might have trouble handling his cards, I make every effort NOT to look at his cards. If it's a young kid who should know better, I don't say a word and take the advantage for all I can get.

Although I guess at a home game, just tell your buddy once and remind him to protect his cards.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:35 AM   #16
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

Here's how I handle it: I try not to look.

If I catch a glimpse and I was going to fold anyway, I don't say anything.

If I have a playable hand, I speak up and let the host decide. I accept with a smile any ruling.

This is one of those situations where no matter what you do, someone will be upset.
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:04 AM   #17
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

What makes this tough is the "I think I saw". If I saw AJ for sure, I make whatever play makes sense (with maybe a slight preference for folding). If that means calling or raising, I announce what I saw before anyone else acts.

If I thought probably maybe I saw AJ, I probalby stfu and play the hand. How many times have you said "I saw Xy flashed", only to see the Bq turned over?

After the hand, I discreetly let him know I can "almost" see his cards sometimes, so he should be more careful.
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:09 AM   #18
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

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Originally Posted by gedanken View Post
What makes this tough is the "I think I saw". If I saw AJ for sure, I make whatever play makes sense (with maybe a slight preference for folding). If that means calling or raising, I announce what I saw before anyone else acts.

If I thought probably maybe I saw AJ, I probalby stfu and play the hand. How many times have you said "I saw Xy flashed", only to see the Bq turned over?

After the hand, I discreetly let him know I can "almost" see his cards sometimes, so he should be more careful.
Yea I'm on board with this.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:35 AM   #19
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

I would never name the cards I think I saw in someones hand while there were live hands in the pot. Although I would speak up, and remind that player to protect the cards.


Too many sticky situations by revealing what you know (or think) that BB has in this hand.
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:27 AM   #20
gedanken
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

just be clear that if you KNOW what another player has, you have an ethical obligation to reveal this to the table. It is unfair to the others if you have information they do not.
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:16 AM   #21
Zak3nnay0
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

play your hand. After the hand is over, tell him privately to conceal his cards more carefully.

Warn him only once though. If you can see his cards again, that's his fault. A friend of mine got in a huge confrontation at a casino with an old man because my friend repeatedly told him he can see his cards.
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Old 05-25-2011, 01:43 PM   #22
Mahowny
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

This situation did happen to me. We were in the final phase of a tournament, 5 handed. I was UTG. The cards were dealt and small blind, in one of those weird moments, turned his 2 cards face up as he was trying to put them under his card protector. He quickly flipped them back over. It was totally the result of his actions, just one of those "oops" moments. This was in the infamous "Stoner" game and no one else was paying any attention and did not see the exposed cards.

I saw them clearly, they were Q 10 off suit, and he knew I had seen them. I was holding A 9 and made a 3.5 times the BB raise. As I made the raise I immediately felt that I was at a huge advantage so I got everybody's attention and announced that I saw SB's cards and the action that I just took was the result of having that information. I told them they were 10 Q off. In other words what I had could beat 10-Q off, unless I was bluffing, which I never do. Everyone folded around to the SB and amazingly he called. He only had abt 10 BB and figured he had to make a stand sometime. BB folded & it was heads up. Flop came 10-blank-blank. He shrugged his shoulders and pushed. I had to fold. Very strange situation.

We discussed it in Top Pair Episode 84 and again in the episode to be released this Saturday, the 28th. www.toppair.net
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:14 PM   #23
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

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Originally Posted by jedi View Post
If it's an old man who might have trouble handling his cards, I make every effort NOT to look at his cards. If it's a young kid who should know better, I don't say a word and take the advantage for all I can get.

Although I guess at a home game, just tell your buddy once and remind him to protect his cards.
This is exactly what I was going to say. Esp the first part. One of the regs at the casino is an old Vet who has nerve damage in his hands and fingers, and to look at cards he has to use both hands one card at a time, and pinch the card sort of, and then hold it up in the air to see it since he's in a motorscooter and can't sit low enough. What's brutal is he's an amazing card player, and I'd love to have the advantage of seeing his stuff, but my personal policy is that I never look.

The young able-bodied idiots at the casino who lift their cards so high they think the people at home need to know what they have? Fair game on those idiots.

In a home game though I will always tell someone. Those are different environments organized for different purposes, and the advantage there isn't really an advantage. I will always say after a hand that we didn't play together, and I never pinpoint the cards I just say I could see colors.
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:31 AM   #24
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Re: Ethics of the Flashed Card

In a friendly home game or casino, I personally just say you need to protect your cards better as I can see them. Then I continue the play. granted if we are talking some old guy that has trouble lifting his cards and seeing them total new situation, and I do my best not to look that direction.
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